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Brendan Eich Steps Down as Mozilla CEO

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Re: Brendan Eich Steps Down as Mozilla CEO

#111

Post by danpalmer »

nostrademons wrote: post #60
phillmv wrote: post #14

From the recode recap - http://recode.net/2014/04/03/mozilla-co-founder-brendan-eich... >“It’s clear that Brendan cannot lead Mozilla in this setting,” said Baker, who added that she would not and could not speak for Eich. “The ability to lead — particularly for the CEO — is fundamental to the role and that is not possible here.” The most damning aspect of this was their a) inability to predict this would be an issue…

It speaks a lot to his integrity that he didn't. Would you rather have a CEO who says one thing in public and then goes and does another thing surreptitiously, or one who stands up for his beliefs even when they're unpopular?

I don't think 'integrity' in the face of an opinion that is becoming more and more unacceptable to hold in our culture is a good thing. Changing your views, and admitting you were wrong is the best thing you can do.

Re: Brendan Eich Steps Down as Mozilla CEO

#112

Post by chrismonsanto »

blueveek wrote: post #41
phillmv wrote: post #14

From the recode recap - http://recode.net/2014/04/03/mozilla-co-founder-brendan-eich... >“It’s clear that Brendan cannot lead Mozilla in this setting,” said Baker, who added that she would not and could not speak for Eich. “The ability to lead — particularly for the CEO — is fundamental to the role and that is not possible here.” The most damning aspect of this was their a) inability to predict this would be an issue…

"All he had to do was lie". Are you suggesting this would've been better, in the grand scheme of things?

From Eich's position, and assuming he wanted to lead Mozilla, and assuming Mozilla wanted above all else for Eich to lead Mozilla, yes. Lying would have been the best move.

In a greater societal context, I'm not sure. I think it is naive to say being 100% honest and transparent 100% of the time is always the best solution, as theoretically appealing as that is. I think it depends on whether you personally think the greater good Mozilla could have done with Eich as CEO, if any, outweighs the (positive?) message that we send when we force people with unpopular beliefs out of their positions. I purposefully ignore the actual monetary contribution, since the Supreme Court struck down Prop 8 anyway.

Re: Brendan Eich Steps Down as Mozilla CEO

#113

Post by dllthomas »

ForHackernews wrote: post #71
coreymgilmore wrote: post #21

Well it happened. I think this is a little extreme and that he shouldn't have succumbed to the pressure. Apparently freedom of speech is no longer accepted by plenty of people in the US. It is okay to put money towards and protest for equal rights, but anytime someone says something negative against it all hell breaks loose. That being said, in general, I think people are a little too sensitive toward anything non-po…

This has nothing to do with "freedom of speech". Freedom of speech means the government can't legally punish you for expressing your views. It doesn't mean that nobody is allowed to criticize you or your views. In order for speech to mean something at all, it has to have consequences.

"Freedom of speech means the government can't legally punish you for expressing your views."

Well, if the government is illegally punishing you for expressing your views, that seems like it's a free speech issue too. Individuals changing their reaction to you, not so much though - especially when that reaction is further speech.

Re: Brendan Eich Steps Down as Mozilla CEO

#114

Post by return0 »

DangerousPie wrote: post #45

I am a strong supporter of gay marriage, but I have to say that I find this very unfortunate and worrying. Apparently many Mozilla supporters seem to think it is okay to bully a qualified person out of his job only for his political views, even if they had absolutely no effect on his qualification or his actions on the job. I can't help but feel like this campaign has done a lot more harm to him than his $1000 donati…

On top of it, the resignation shines a bad light on gay-marriage activism, nobody likes a bully.

Re: Brendan Eich Steps Down as Mozilla CEO

#115

Post by Borogove »

rossjudson wrote: post #93
coreymgilmore wrote: post #21

Well it happened. I think this is a little extreme and that he shouldn't have succumbed to the pressure. Apparently freedom of speech is no longer accepted by plenty of people in the US. It is okay to put money towards and protest for equal rights, but anytime someone says something negative against it all hell breaks loose. That being said, in general, I think people are a little too sensitive toward anything non-po…

Claiming there's no longer any freedom of speech is rather foolish. This is about proportionality of response. When is it OK to take direct, personal, and extreme action against an individual? Did Eich's conduct rise to that level?

What extreme action was taken?

Re: Brendan Eich Steps Down as Mozilla CEO

#116

Post by gfodor »

benjohnson wrote: post #29

"our large, global, and diverse community is what makes Mozilla special" Apparently diversity is narrower today.

Diversity of character, upbringing, viewpoints, or personality only counts if you first meet the "different skin color or gender" requirement. If you want evidence of this just look for the lack of companies that celebrate the diversity of their workforce of white men who come from poor economic backgrounds. And then notice the companies who celebrate their gender ratio or minority ratio without acknowledging that many of those people likely had economic privilege.

If we are going to celebrate diversity we should do so based upon the diversity of ideas and opinions unique people bring to the workplace. Quantifying this by superficial things about a person's appearance, while perhaps a decent proxy, is overall a poor way to do this. Someone who supports prop 8 (something I vehemently disagree with, but many Americans support) yet thrives in the engineering community is almost by definition a unique individual who likely brings alternative viewpoints to the table. I wouldn't be surprised if 1 in 100 engineers agree with him on this point. But no, because someone disagrees with us on a political or moral issue we can't compartmentalize it and try to appreciate what they bring to the table otherwise.

Re: Brendan Eich Steps Down as Mozilla CEO

#117

Post by nostrademons »

IanDrake wrote: post #42

To me this is a win for freedom of speech and free markets. You're free to express your close minded opinion, but the market is free to reject it and you.

There's no need to editorialize. "You're free to express your opinion, but the market is free to reject you." Remember that a generation ago, many of the opinions that we believe are simply open-minded were unthinkable, and people who thought them faced severe rejection by "the market".

Re: Brendan Eich Steps Down as Mozilla CEO

#118

Post by cmelbye »

DangerousPie wrote: post #45

I am a strong supporter of gay marriage, but I have to say that I find this very unfortunate and worrying. Apparently many Mozilla supporters seem to think it is okay to bully a qualified person out of his job only for his political views, even if they had absolutely no effect on his qualification or his actions on the job. I can't help but feel like this campaign has done a lot more harm to him than his $1000 donati…

Mozilla is perhaps a special case. In other organizations, I might understand that argument. To me, it feels like a case of cognitive dissonance when the organization promotes free speech, free expression, etc., while its CEO donates to organizations which restrict it.

(Whether or not one agrees with that is besides the point. Mozilla's board does, which is what matters with this decision.)

Re: Brendan Eich Steps Down as Mozilla CEO

#120

Post by bmj »

Beliavsky wrote: post #15

From the article: "We have employees with a wide diversity of views. Our culture of openness extends to encouraging staff and community to share their beliefs and opinions in public." Clearly people with socially conservative views are not welcome at Mozilla.

The issue here is that one side believes this is a civil rights issue, while the other side believes this to be a cultural issue. For the former, this is about repression, but for the latter it is about the moral fabric of culture. The latter is considered a political issue (like, say, prohibition), but the former is about human rights, which many believe raises the issue about the level of "mere" politics.
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