Brendan Eich Steps Down as Mozilla CEO • Hacker News Board

Re: Brendan Eich Steps Down as Mozilla CEO

#301

Post by yock » Thu, Apr 03, 2014, 7:52 PM UTC

danpalmer wrote: post #111

nostrademons wrote: post #60

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It speaks a lot to his integrity that he didn't. Would you rather have a CEO who says one thing in public and then goes and does another thing surreptitiously, or one who stands up for his beliefs even when they're unpopular?

I don't think 'integrity' in the face of an opinion that is becoming more and more unacceptable to hold in our culture is a good thing. Changing your views, and admitting you were wrong is the best thing you can do.

So he is to be viewed as objectively incorrect because his is an opinion that "is becoming more and more unacceptable to hold in our culture"?

That's crazy, man. I can't imagine it would take too much effort to come up with some popular opinions that reasonable people could disagree with.

Re: Brendan Eich Steps Down as Mozilla CEO

#302

Post by bronson » Thu, Apr 03, 2014, 7:52 PM UTC

smsm42 wrote: post #226

Oculus wrote: post #6

I'm not sure how I feel about this one. On the one hand, Brendan Eich had some beliefs that were against Mozilla's core values, but on the other hand we just showed that when a mob on the Internet wants something - they get it. It's scary because this mob has global reach, unlimited power, but isn't always right.

I'm kind of confused why a software project has to have any values about gay marriage. Should they also have values about abortion, gun control, marijuana legalization, single-payer healthcare, contraceptive funding, stem-cell research, fracking? You know, we have a lot of hot button topics here and a lot of groups who would like nothing more than make national news by attaching themselves to something or somebody fa…

Because the project employs gay people, some of whom would be in a position to receive marriage benefits from said project.

Re: Brendan Eich Steps Down as Mozilla CEO

#303

Post by grecy » Thu, Apr 03, 2014, 7:52 PM UTC

Good. I hope his career is over and he falls into obscurity.

He's just like someone championing segregation a few decades ago. History will not look at him kindly.

The world has no place for those that discriminate.

Re: Brendan Eich Steps Down as Mozilla CEO

#304

Post by radicalbyte » Thu, Apr 03, 2014, 7:52 PM UTC

danudey wrote: post #181

radicalbyte wrote: post #87

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> All he had to do was lie I may be diametrically opposed to Brendan's views, but he has earned my respect by being honest and sticking to his values.

Meh. Sticking to your values of exclusion and divisiveness isn't really something I can respect someone for. 'Good for you for continuing to believe that gay people shouldn't be allowed to marry, even though it doesn't hurt you in any way if they do.' Preventing gay people from getting married really just seems like spite, like 'I don't like you so you can't have this'. I can't respect someone like that.

> even though it doesn't hurt you in any way if they do.

He is no longer CEO of Mozilla, a job he quite clearly wanted to do. Sticking to his beliefs _HAS_ cost him.

It's not spite. It's based on his moral framework. 15 years ago I shared that framework, so I understand why he feels that way. He is, in my opinion, wrong, and I hope that he eventually realizes that (like I did).

But he stuck to his beliefs at a time when lesser men would have buckled.

We could do with my people like that in the financial industry..

Re: Brendan Eich Steps Down as Mozilla CEO

#305

Post by maratc » Thu, Apr 03, 2014, 7:52 PM UTC

The first person to lose his job to homophobo-phobia.

Re: Brendan Eich Steps Down as Mozilla CEO

#306

Post by crassus » Thu, Apr 03, 2014, 7:52 PM UTC

thinkpad20 wrote: post #265

ameen wrote: post #169

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Freedom of speech is to be exercised only for populist opinions. If we continue to travel down this path, we'd all have the same opinions, as anyone who dares to hold an different opinion than the majority would be ostracized from the society.

No one is abridging Eich's freedom of speech. Freedom of speech is the right to express yourself, not the right to have no one judge you for it.

This is how East Germany worked. You weren't usually harmed for holding non-communist beliefs, but you were blacklisted so that you would never work again.

Re: Brendan Eich Steps Down as Mozilla CEO

#307

Post by thrwwwy » Thu, Apr 03, 2014, 7:52 PM UTC

One thing that is clear is that any corporate executive who holds an anti-LGBT viewpoint will be destroyed. Eich was made an example of.

The ability for internet mobs to create chilling effects could lead to a movement for less transparency for smaller political donations. Where I'm sitting, that wouldn't be a bad thing.

Re: Brendan Eich Steps Down as Mozilla CEO

#308

Post by gfodor » Thu, Apr 03, 2014, 7:52 PM UTC

mkr-hn wrote: post #259

gfodor wrote: post #209

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I support legalizing gay marriage. But two things, first, supporting prop 8 does not mean you "believe a certain group of people don't deserve to live their lives like others." It means you don't believe that the government should recognize same sex marriages as marriages. There are a large gradient of views here, and on one extreme are the bigots who hate homosexuals and on the other there are people who simply have…

He had the opportunity to clarify which of these views he held. He chose to step down and leave us to speculate instead.

That's a fair point. But to play devil's advocate, I can empathize with someone just wanting to get out of the spotlight when they are in the middle of a worldwide mob accusing them of being a bigot. In all likelihood, at that point, anything you say will just be manipulated to re-enforce the view that you are an intolerant, evil person.

Re: Brendan Eich Steps Down as Mozilla CEO

#309

Post by thumbtackthief » Thu, Apr 03, 2014, 7:52 PM UTC

SimHacker wrote: post #254

nostrademons wrote: post #199

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This line of reasoning is very troubling to me, because 20 years ago it was pretty much unacceptable in the U.S. to hold the opinion that gays were entitled to full legal rights, let alone the ability to marry. That changed only because some very courageous people stuck their neck out, weathered all the flack and negative personal repercussions towards themselves, and gradually made the point of "Why not?" I fully su…

The difference is that the people who stuck their neck out for racial equality, gay rights and women's rights were objectively right, but Brendan Eich is objectively wrong. And that matters.

Well, that's a matter of opinion (which I completely agree with!) but we can't say it's objective.

Re: Brendan Eich Steps Down as Mozilla CEO

#310

Post by pbiggar » Thu, Apr 03, 2014, 7:53 PM UTC

haberman wrote: post #156

Really torn about this. On one hand it seemed pretty clear that Brendan was not letting these views carry over into his professional life. On the other hand, using his power (in this case, money) to actively stand against equality makes him, in my mind, an active and willing participant in the overall power structure that denies and marginalizes gay people. If I were gay I can imagine that being a bitter pill to swal…

Congrats, this is possibly the best comment in the entire thread. Issues like this are rarely black and white, and this is grayer than most.

As a former Mozillian, I'm frustrated that a great person to lead Mozilla held such destructive views about other human beings. Brendan is, in my limited interactions with him, a wonderful person who has done great things. It's very difficult to know how to combine that with the idea that he is opposed to equality for a large group of people.