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Did Malaysian Airlines 370 disappear using SIA68/SQ68 (another 777)?

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Re: Did Malaysian Airlines 370 disappear using SIA68/SQ68 (another 777)?

#361

Post by jpatokal »

DanBC wrote: post #306
cube13 wrote: post #283

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is the kind of target that would have someone claiming responsibility. The plane wasn't from a country that's known for disproportionate responses to attacks(i.e. the US or Russia). I would figure that if any group actually did pull this off, they'd be making public announcements that they took down the plane, or were holding it for ransom.

Aum Shinrikyo aerosolised and released anthrax for a week. They were caught. They didn't make any announcement about it. Announcing it a few days afterwards would have caused significant panic and distress. (Luckily they used the "wrong" anthrax, so not much harm done). The same organisation also did odd things in Australia. They made sarin and VX gas, tested that on sheep, and the. Used the gases in several assassin…

You mean "was", "had", and "were", since everybody connected with the sarin attacks is now arrested or dead. The rump "Aleph" group is a shadow of its former self, has renounced their predecessor's tactics, and is very heavily monitored.

Also, IIRC Aum never used anthrax (although they did stockpile it), only sarin and VX, which are chemical agents, not biological.

Re: Did Malaysian Airlines 370 disappear using SIA68/SQ68 (another 777)?

#362

Post by keypusher »

saalweachter wrote: post #172

I really wonder how much of this rampant speculation is just people desperately wanting 300 people not to have died, either at all or just for no reason at all. Secret terrorist masterminds secretly hijacking a plane is more comforting than "sometimes shit happens and people die and there's nothing anyone can do".

Except for the fact that multiple communications systems were deliberately turned off, and the place continued to fly for hours after that fact. I don't think anyone would have been particularly suprised if the place crashed into the ocean off the coast of Malaysia. In fact, that is what most people assumed at first, and that is why all the search and rescue efforts were focused in that area for the first 3 or 4 days. If you have been paying attention to what has come out after then, or read this article, I think you will see that does not appear to be the case.

Re: Did Malaysian Airlines 370 disappear using SIA68/SQ68 (another 777)?

#363

Post by paulannesley »

gpjt wrote: post #181
72deluxe wrote: post #70

"Snuck" is a strange American word, the same as "dove" instead of "dived", eg. "he dove into the pool" instead of "he dived into the pool". I would read "snuck" as "sneaked". Another weird word is "gotten". And another strange and irritating phrase that is sneaking its way into English over here is "for free", but "free" is not a price so instead of "buy 3 eggs for £2.00", you get weird phrases "sign up now and get t…

"gotten" definitely sounds odd to me (I'm from England) but it's worth noting that we do keep that form in "forgotten". Presumably both were acceptable over here at some stage. "I see no reason why gunpowder and treason should ever be forgot."

The word “forgot” was chosen to rhyme with “plot”, so may not have been a normal use of the word/form.

http://en.wikiquote.org/wiki/Guy_Fawkes#Quotes_about_Fawkes

(Now you've made me want to watch V for Vendetta again!)

Re: Did Malaysian Airlines 370 disappear using SIA68/SQ68 (another 777)?

#364

Post by keypusher »

tn13 wrote: post #345

This is not an hijack terrorism. Terrorism is all about showing off, theatrics, fear. No one would make a plane disappear for the sake of terrorism. I have only two theories 1. China or some other country shot it down by mistake and trying to cover up. 2. Something of immense importance was present on that plane or may be a person. In either cases substantial involvement of some state needs to be there.

That is not necessarily true. If it is terrorism, it's possible this isn't over, and that the plane will be used in a future high-profile attack. And if the target was passengers, cargo, or something else entirely I don't think that logically leads to it being state-sponsored.

Re: Did Malaysian Airlines 370 disappear using SIA68/SQ68 (another 777)?

#365

Post by dragonwriter »

paulannesley wrote: post #363
gpjt wrote: post #181

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"gotten" definitely sounds odd to me (I'm from England) but it's worth noting that we do keep that form in "forgotten". Presumably both were acceptable over here at some stage. "I see no reason why gunpowder and treason should ever be forgot."

The word “forgot” was chosen to rhyme with “plot”, so may not have been a normal use of the word/form. http://en.wikiquote.org/wiki/Guy_Fawkes#Quotes_about_Fawkes (Now you've made me want to watch V for Vendetta again!)

Its worth noting that use of "forgot" instead of "forgotten" is also found in the first line of Auld Lang Syne, where it isn't rhymed with anything.

Re: Did Malaysian Airlines 370 disappear using SIA68/SQ68 (another 777)?

#366

Post by pbhjpbhj »

epochwolf wrote: post #317
danford wrote: post #125

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't think it's supposed to be easy to turn off the tracking mechanisms of planes.

It's called a circuit breaker. Just about every system, include the flight recorders, autopilot, and transponders can be independently turned off.

@danford was asserting that he didn't think there would be switches in the cockpit that allowed all tracking devices to be turned off. Are you countering his statement? Can you provide a citation?

Re: Did Malaysian Airlines 370 disappear using SIA68/SQ68 (another 777)?

#367

Post by dragonwriter »

philwelch wrote: post #323
thenmar wrote: post #319

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Wait, you don't seriously think that Russia disappeared a Malaysian airliner (and hundreds of international citizens) to distract the world (?) from Crimea. That's just fucking absurd.

The USA bombed Yugoslavia to distract the world from Bill Clinton fooling around with an intern. Putin plays to win and if he doesn't get caught, what's a couple hundred airline passengers to him?

> The USA bombed Yugoslavia to distract the world from Bill Clinton fooling around with an intern.

That's a rather controversial claim. You could probably make the case that, instead, the Clinton Administration exploited the Right's obsession with the Lewinsky affair to drown out any serious domestic criticsm of its policy in Yugoslavia.

Re: Did Malaysian Airlines 370 disappear using SIA68/SQ68 (another 777)?

#368

Post by aaron695 »

I understand there will always be crackpot theories but why are they getting up-voted.

State sponsored? WTF. This would be an act of war. If you want to go to war why wouldn't you just attack the other countries. Why screw around stealing 300 international citizens first?

Pretty simple stuff, most likely an accident.

Or possibly a political/mental act by a very small group/one person that got lucky.

Re: Did Malaysian Airlines 370 disappear using SIA68/SQ68 (another 777)?

#369

Post by dragonwriter »

ccarpenterg wrote: post #157
jballanc wrote: post #45

The folks over at airliners.net have pointed out that the 777's collision avoidance system only works if both planes' transponders are turned on. That doesn't mean this scenario is impossible, but it does raise the level of sophistication required. Sadly, I feel like whatever happened, the amount of sophistication involved increasingly points toward the involvement of one or more state actors. If that's the case, I'm…

I hope you're wrong. If a state was involved that would mean that boarding a plane is extremely dangerous from now on. This case is really suspicious but I still think this was just an accident.

> If a state was involved that would mean that boarding a plane is extremely dangerous from now on.

Why, it wouldn't be the first either destruction or hijacking or both of a plane with nation-state involvement, so I don't see how it would change anything?

Re: Did Malaysian Airlines 370 disappear using SIA68/SQ68 (another 777)?

#370

Post by Shivetya »

cube13 wrote: post #283
knowaveragejoe wrote: post #269

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes, but I think what Herbig is saying is that the increased sophistication of assumptions means decreased likelihood that this was a deliberate hijacking. We get further away from Occam's razor in order to satisfy that. As of yet we haven't seen any group take responsibility, no claims of hostages or anything remotely indicative of this. So if it was taken by a terrorist group, where is the terrorism they plan to co…

This is the kind of target that would have someone claiming responsibility. The plane wasn't from a country that's known for disproportionate responses to attacks(i.e. the US or Russia). I would figure that if any group actually did pull this off, they'd be making public announcements that they took down the plane, or were holding it for ransom.

Well if anything, we are certainly doing a good job of telling future whack jobs just what to do if they want to try it.

China isn't exactly a country I would mess with, I think they would be about as restrained as Russia. Terrorist would expect a big response from them, or do they see them the same as pre-Bush US?

Even if they got the plane for later use, just trying to use it would be amazingly difficult. However we did tell them how we knew it flew so they do know what to knock out to fly it again.

As for claiming responsibility, disappearing a plane and not claiming it is simply amazing, do it twice and aviation will shut down in that part of the world, do it three times, well hell.

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