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Julie Ann Horvath Describes Sexism and Intimidation Behind Her GitHub Exit

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Re: Julie Ann Horvath Describes Sexism and Intimidation Behind Her GitHub Exit

#931

Post by bsder »

ChuckMcM wrote: post #801
bsder wrote: post #774

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Well, why was someone willing to quit over changes you made? And why was the manager willing to side with him over you? Those are pretty big flags that you screwed up.

Well in this particular case it was pretty much all politics. Had it been about the code it would have had a different outcome. The person making the threat felt they were immune from backlash, but they were threatened by where I was working in the code base because they lacked the expertise to compete on a technical level. What I found even more interesting was that our mutual manager felt that his position was an e…

> Well in this particular case it was pretty much all politics.

I had assumed as much. Sun seemed to be very political except for a very few areas; I avoided it for that exact reason.

It's always a hard lesson for a junior person to realize that politics exists. I had my introduction to that at a very big company in a very hard way.

Re: Julie Ann Horvath Describes Sexism and Intimidation Behind Her GitHub Exit

#932

Post by calibraxis »

krick wrote: post #902
kaitai wrote: post #895

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Professionalism would dictate that the wife not be involved even if this is the case. I don't go tell my husband's nurses that ... well, anything! What business do I have with my husband's colleagues other than being polite at the summer barbecue and the holiday party?

It may be arguable, but for me non-company member being somehow related to company business is not only acceptable, but actually very nice. Being family member of the founder is reason enough to care about company, and I'd prefer informal atmosphere where people can help with business just because they care to that formal bureaucratic atmosphere that is common in banks. That's were wives come to pretty boring holiday…

Combining work and marriage structures is fraught with all sorts of problematic outcomes. Consider even the differing processes to enter each institution. Or the differing standards for being successful at each.

Re: Julie Ann Horvath Describes Sexism and Intimidation Behind Her GitHub Exit

#933

Post by antihero »

psykotic wrote: post #380
sgentle wrote: post #235

Ouch. What a terrible situation. I'm holding out for the other side of the story, but unless you're willing to assume the entire thing is invented this is a major fuckup for GitHub. I think this is a classic problem with companies making the transition from small startup to regular business. Break down the barriers! Flat management! Kill bureaucracy and embrace no-politics DIY organisation! The article reads like an…

> I mean, someone reverting your code because of a personal vendetta? I laughed out loud when I read this and several other specific details in the story. It sounded very familiar. I have several friends and many acquaintances who work at Valve. One very senior engineer initially worked on Source 2 about three years ago but had to quickly switch projects because another, more tenured engineer was expressing his disag…

> One very senior engineer initially worked on Source 2 about three years ago but had to quickly switch projects because another, more tenured engineer was expressing his disagreements by silently reverting some of my friend's check-ins.

Wow. Just wow. This pisses me off especially, because to make it as a freelancer I've had to work damn hard to develop self-discipline, maturity, and reverse a path of self-destructive behaviour.

To see people in senior positions act like complete fucking children irritates me to no end, and I will do everything in my power to stop this when I run a company.

Does anyone know, with regards to employment law, whether it's ok to include provisions that allow us to fire or at least demote, for people acting like nasty, immature human beings?

Re: Julie Ann Horvath Describes Sexism and Intimidation Behind Her GitHub Exit

#934

Post by antihero »

PhasmaFelis wrote: post #818
pekk wrote: post #728

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> This is the point that stands out for me. That the wife is not an employee of Github but claims to be able to access private company chat records, and also is able to "work" from within the office and interact with the staff. Completely ridiculous and unprofessional. But, not sexist. Just terrible.

However, the guy who declared his love for her despite knowing that she had a boyfriend, and then started sabotaging all her code when she shot him down, is very much sexist bullshit.

That is the sort of thing that you should be able to fire people on the spot for, no severance, just get out you misogynistic entitled scum you deserve nothing from anyone.

Re: Julie Ann Horvath Describes Sexism and Intimidation Behind Her GitHub Exit

#935

Post by nodelessness »

PhasmaFelis wrote: post #818
pekk wrote: post #728

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> This is the point that stands out for me. That the wife is not an employee of Github but claims to be able to access private company chat records, and also is able to "work" from within the office and interact with the staff. Completely ridiculous and unprofessional. But, not sexist. Just terrible.

However, the guy who declared his love for her despite knowing that she had a boyfriend, and then started sabotaging all her code when she shot him down, is very much sexist bullshit.

That's not sexist. Sexism is when you act out the belief that the person of other gender is inferior to yours. Singling her out for rejecting his advances is not sexist.

Re: Julie Ann Horvath Describes Sexism and Intimidation Behind Her GitHub Exit

#936

Post by slowmotiony »

cwaniak wrote: post #795

--- ATTENTION: THERE IS NO SEXISM AT GITHUB!!! --- Proof #1: Do I read it correctly that a woman got into fights with another woman -- and that is termed as "sexism" now? Give me a break… Proof @2: how came "sexist" is an organization that is under influence and control of the boss wife? Who doesn't even officially work there!!! Like, really? This is sexism now??? WOW!!! So, again: give me a break with this nonsense!…

HN seems to me like the biggest pool of white knights on the internet.

Re: Julie Ann Horvath Describes Sexism and Intimidation Behind Her GitHub Exit

#937

Post by ahomescu1 »

brongondwana wrote: post #831
d4nt wrote: post #572

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What you say is true, but I don't believe a contract of employment entitles any company to tell someone who they can or cannot date. If, for the reasons you describe, they wish to maintain a public position of "we not encourage dating coworkers" that's one thing, so long as they don't actually think they have any say in this matter.

Reasonable is "don't date anyone in your line of management". Options in the case that you do start dating including transferring out to a different manager. That's reasonable, because it's a conflict of interest issue rather than a "who you are allowed to date".

Probably also reasonable is "don't date anyone in your building", at least that way you don't have to see them every day if it goes south.

Re: Julie Ann Horvath Describes Sexism and Intimidation Behind Her GitHub Exit

#938

Post by ahomescu1 »

Nursie wrote: post #725
jusben1369 wrote: post #639

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's not "sick". It's that it's rife with problems. I don't think companies should ban dating but I think it's very wise for them to be wary of it happening and educate their employees, before they start, to imagine what happens if that person becomes their boss or subordinate or breaks up with them and they have to see them everyday at work and work together. And/or starts dating someone else. Or is their superior a…

15 upvotes disagree with you. It's a denial of life and humanity in the pure interest of the business. It's sick.

Does "life and humanity" include a bad breakup, tons of drama, and pulling the entire office/company into that drama? (not saying it's always the case, or even a lot, but it's very bad in the few cases when it does happen) If people could truly separate their personal lives from their professional ones, this wouldn't ever be an issue.

Re: Julie Ann Horvath Describes Sexism and Intimidation Behind Her GitHub Exit

#939

Post by Nursie »

ahomescu1 wrote: post #938
Nursie wrote: post #725

Earlier quoted context omitted.

15 upvotes disagree with you. It's a denial of life and humanity in the pure interest of the business. It's sick.

Does "life and humanity" include a bad breakup, tons of drama, and pulling the entire office/company into that drama? (not saying it's always the case, or even a lot, but it's very bad in the few cases when it does happen) If people could truly separate their personal lives from their professional ones, this wouldn't ever be an issue.

Of course it does. That's humanity. I understand entirely why a business would want to avoid this stuff, but I also understand why a business might want to not have to pay employees, or might want to work them 24 hours a day if it could. None of these things is healthy.

Re: Julie Ann Horvath Describes Sexism and Intimidation Behind Her GitHub Exit

#940

Post by theorique »

pron wrote: post #535
theorique wrote: post #98

The bad actor in this version of the story seems to be the founder's wife. And the founder certainly dropped the ball by not keeping his wife in line. For whatever reason, the wife acted crazy, intimidating, and creepy toward Horvath. Why? Who knows? Maybe because of jealousy or concern that her husband was interested in this (admittedly reasonably attractive) female employee? The founder needed to do the professiona…

> "admittedly reasonably attractive" Admittedly, you seem reasonably intelligent, but this is out of place.

Thanks, it took two hours to do my brain makeup today.

I don't think it's completely irrelevant - if female competitiveness is a factor (wife jealous of star employee at husband's company) - a big 'if' since we don't know the whole story - it is much more likely to be a factor in the case of an attractive woman versus one who is not.

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