Julie Ann Horvath Describes Sexism and Intimidation Behind Her GitHub Exit • Hacker News Board

Re: Julie Ann Horvath Describes Sexism and Intimidation Behind Her GitHub Exit

#531

Post by garethsprice » Sun, Mar 16, 2014, 2:48 PM UTC

yawz wrote: post #254

yeukhon wrote: post #183

There seems to be several problems. Not entirely sexism. 1. Founder's wife asked Horvath out and gave her a lecture about who is the boss. Probably out of jealousy. 2. Founder's wife physically inanimate Horvath, making her unwelcome and scared. 3. Founder did not stop the wife and protect his wife. 4. Horvath was approached by a male co-worker and according to her her rejection had caused tension between her and tha…

>While the founder is right about avoiding dating someone in your own company This is one of my pet peeves. This is a professional setting and the employees are not 13. They should be mature enough to be able to handle their personal lives without bans or frown upons. Someone can't handle rejection? Who says he/she can handle criticism? What about disagreements? To me this is a personality problem that should be deal…

Relationships breaking down are messy at the best of times, toxic at their worst. More people than not, when faced with the collapse of a relationship, will act like a 13 year old than a rational adult.

If the company is seen to have encouraged or even acknowledged the relationship it can create a huge liability, especially if one of the people involves feels like they got stiffed because of relationship issues (sidelined, transferred, had to resign, etc).

The number of couples who say they met at work suggests that blind eyes are often turned, but a company has those official bans on intra-office dating for good reason.

Re: Julie Ann Horvath Describes Sexism and Intimidation Behind Her GitHub Exit

#532

Post by ebfe » Sun, Mar 16, 2014, 2:48 PM UTC

enneff wrote: post #219

stoptalkingshit wrote: post #217

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes, this person who can slander GitHub all over the twitterverse with the dreaded "sexist" label with no evidence is totally powerless. lol.

This is going to hurt Horvath more than it hurts GitHub. She's going to receive a torrent of abuse for speaking out like this, whether her version of events is accurate or not.

>This is going to hurt Horvath more than it hurts GitHub.

Really? You'd rather pay out a $250,000 settlement than incur an increase in the number of negative comments you receive on the internet for a couple weeks?

Re: Julie Ann Horvath Describes Sexism and Intimidation Behind Her GitHub Exit

#533

Post by marincounty » Sun, Mar 16, 2014, 2:49 PM UTC

Github has designers? I guess I've been going to the wrong site? I see absolutely no design. It's all business look has always depressed me.

Re: Julie Ann Horvath Describes Sexism and Intimidation Behind Her GitHub Exit

#534

Post by scott_s » Sun, Mar 16, 2014, 2:52 PM UTC

psykotic wrote: post #380

sgentle wrote: post #235

Ouch. What a terrible situation. I'm holding out for the other side of the story, but unless you're willing to assume the entire thing is invented this is a major fuckup for GitHub. I think this is a classic problem with companies making the transition from small startup to regular business. Break down the barriers! Flat management! Kill bureaucracy and embrace no-politics DIY organisation! The article reads like an…

> I mean, someone reverting your code because of a personal vendetta? I laughed out loud when I read this and several other specific details in the story. It sounded very familiar. I have several friends and many acquaintances who work at Valve. One very senior engineer initially worked on Source 2 about three years ago but had to quickly switch projects because another, more tenured engineer was expressing his disag…

The essay "The Tyranny of Stucturelessness" is an excellent analysis of this problem: http://www.bopsecrets.org/CF/structurelessness.htm

Re: Julie Ann Horvath Describes Sexism and Intimidation Behind Her GitHub Exit

#535

Post by pron » Sun, Mar 16, 2014, 2:53 PM UTC

theorique wrote: post #98

The bad actor in this version of the story seems to be the founder's wife. And the founder certainly dropped the ball by not keeping his wife in line. For whatever reason, the wife acted crazy, intimidating, and creepy toward Horvath. Why? Who knows? Maybe because of jealousy or concern that her husband was interested in this (admittedly reasonably attractive) female employee? The founder needed to do the professiona…

> "admittedly reasonably attractive"

Admittedly, you seem reasonably intelligent, but this is out of place.

Re: Julie Ann Horvath Describes Sexism and Intimidation Behind Her GitHub Exit

#536

Post by theorique » Sun, Mar 16, 2014, 2:54 PM UTC

Dylan16807 wrote: post #165

enneff wrote: post #139

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"Dropped the ball" ?!?!!??!?!?! This is so far beyond inappropriate. If it is even 10% true then there are serious organisational problems at that company. I am gobsmacked that people are leaping to downplay these accusations, without knowing anything about it.

Well it's not really his responsibility. It's the wife's, then HR's, then the police's job. And in most matters that don't involve anyone actually dying I think 'dropped the ball' is perfectly acceptable.

Within the context of the company, it's his responsibility as an founder and an executive. His wife (AFAIK) has no formal title or role at the company - all her power and influence is derived from his status as a founder/executive.

Yes, as a person with free will, his wife is ultimately responsible and "shouldn't" have done what she is alleged to have done. But in the context of corporate governance and law, he is responsible for allowing her to have privileges and access to the company that are quite unconventional.

Re: Julie Ann Horvath Describes Sexism and Intimidation Behind Her GitHub Exit

#537

Post by greenrd » Sun, Mar 16, 2014, 2:55 PM UTC

stefantalpalaru wrote: post #431

gojomo wrote: post #288

While the 'wife' aspect has drawn a lot of attention, it seems that through her marriage she may essentially have a founder's level of equity in the company. I don't know the personalities involved, but she might also have relevant professional experience, and/or have been genuinely helpful in handling thorny issues in the past (even if this case clearly escalated into many kinds of mutual suspicion and recrimination…

> it seems that through her marriage she may essentially have a founder's level of equity in the company What about the founder's mom? Or the founder's father? Or the founder's children? Or the founder's dear grandma? There's a reason why equity and investor/adviser roles should be clear and formalized. Bringing cookies at your spouse's work place doesn't entitle you to anything more than polite greetings.

Marriage is typically associated with sharing assets and belongings. While some parents can be quite free in helping their children out financially, it doesn't mean you can just go into your parents' house and take their money out of their wallets without asking them.

Re: Julie Ann Horvath Describes Sexism and Intimidation Behind Her GitHub Exit

#538

Post by r0muald » Sun, Mar 16, 2014, 2:56 PM UTC

jessaustin wrote: post #497

r0muald wrote: post #482

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Apparently they were as excited to have her onboard as with any other new hire at the time: https://github.com/blog/1082-julie-ann-horvath-is-a-githubbe...

What's the point? Presumably they make similar announcements for many new hires, although I have to wonder if those are illustrated by such pore-stretchingly enormous head photos.

Actually, announcements have since become less cliché - or from another perspective they are now based on a IMHO silly we-are-a-happy-company cliché (including GIFs).

Re: Julie Ann Horvath Describes Sexism and Intimidation Behind Her GitHub Exit

#539

Post by kevinthew » Sun, Mar 16, 2014, 2:56 PM UTC

LockeWatts wrote: post #109

Crito wrote: post #94

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If it is true and clear that the developer tampered with the codebase because of a personal issue with another developer, I am not even sure that is an issue to let HR resolve; I would want that developer fired immediately. Intentionally fucking with the product, or any other sort of company property, is inexcusable in my mind. Tanking the reputation of that developer is putting it nicely.

I was trying to be measured in the language because I don't consider the TechCrunch article to be completely unbiased on the man, but yes, in general I agree. Intentionally sabotaging code should have you out the door on your ass.

It's straight up sexual harassment, which goes beyond sabotaging code. He shouldn't have made it through the day.

Re: Julie Ann Horvath Describes Sexism and Intimidation Behind Her GitHub Exit

#540

Post by ebfe » Sun, Mar 16, 2014, 2:58 PM UTC

gruntmaster9000 wrote: post #480

wyclif wrote: post #469

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I found that episode terribly confused, and I never understood the rationale behind it. Isn't "meritocracy" a value and environment that feminists have told us over and over again is a positive development for women? Don't women want to work in a "meritocracy" precisely because their work will be valued and appreciated not because they are women but because excellence at work knows no sex, colour, or creed?

Steve Klabnik explains it well: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=7405881 In short, it’s a not-really-present ideal that’s often used to mask the existing power relationships that are really responsible for people being promoted/demoted to where they are.

I love this line of reasoning. X isn't perfectly Y, so let's get rid of it in favor of something that's even farther from Y!