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Julie Ann Horvath Describes Sexism and Intimidation Behind Her GitHub Exit

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Re: Julie Ann Horvath Describes Sexism and Intimidation Behind Her GitHub Exit

#191

Post by ZoF »

XorNot wrote: post #171
ZoF wrote: post #128

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What? The sexist part of this isn't the Founder's Wife's behavior(that sounds standard crazy), it's everyone at Github's behavior. /* Let me preface this by saying we have only seen half the story at this point, so I wouldn't make absolute judgements yet and the below is based on the hypothetical situation in which the linked article is 100% factual. */ If my founder was female and her husband was coming into work re…

It's also worth considering that we have no idea if the founder's wife was also doing this to other male employees. She may have been - and gender perceptions being what they are, we're even less likely to hear about it.

Yep, honestly I just hope GitHub makes a response sooner rather than later. The longer this festers before we get a counterpoint the worse it will be.

Also hope it doesn't turn into the mud-slinging it seems to be headed towards.

Re: Julie Ann Horvath Describes Sexism and Intimidation Behind Her GitHub Exit

#192

Post by kansface »

btilly wrote: post #73
zby wrote: post #36

What a mess! But it looks like sexism was not the number one problem.

The coworker who thought she was an opportunity, and the failure to discipline that coworker, definitely is sexism.

Its not sexism. It could be considered sexual harassment, maybe. Plan old harassment is probably more accurate.

Re: Julie Ann Horvath Describes Sexism and Intimidation Behind Her GitHub Exit

#193

Post by jd0 »

derefr wrote: post #75
bitops wrote: post #53

As usual, another HN thread that perfectly exemplifies victim blaming and a collective burying of heads in the sand. There's a few people on here who seem to get it, but most don't. I'm sick of it. Goodbye, Hacker News.

Hackers, in my experience, have more shared experience in being naive enough socially to allow themselves to be baited into making statements which are later used against them, than in actually saying things (or even associating with others who would say things) which are intentionally malicious. We all understand fixing someone's computer and then being blamed for any problems it has from then on; or for making a so…

This can look like "victim-blaming", but it's really more-than-anything a yearning for people to keep their standards of evidence high

I don't buy it. The "hacker type" despite self-professing as a logical bunch falls prey to all of the logical fallacies and cognitive biases that any other opinionated group does. The evidence is already out there, this is one of many incidents following a trend of sexism in this industry that has been going on for decades.

Github does not exist in a vacuum and real life social interaction doesn't use variables beyond a distant abstract analysis.

Re: Julie Ann Horvath Describes Sexism and Intimidation Behind Her GitHub Exit

#194

Post by ZoF »

Aqueous wrote: post #120

I'm not entirely sure the hula-hooping incident - merely observing girls hula hooping is not a crime, is it? - by itself constitutes a hostile atmosphere for women, unless inappropriate comments were being made. What we have here is some completely inappropriate, cloak and dagger, soap opera shit being perpetrated by the wife of the cofounder, who has no business meddling in the affairs of his employees. (If true, th…

Yeah, I found that to be the oddest part; that after so much bullshit, that was the last straw. It was almost too anti-climatic of an ending to this sexism/crazy-founder/wife tale.

Agreed though, completely 100% justified in getting out of that shit, glad the story got told as well.

Re: Julie Ann Horvath Describes Sexism and Intimidation Behind Her GitHub Exit

#195

Post by MarkTee »

lutusp wrote: post #143
LockeWatts wrote: post #99

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Wait, what does the noun change? You completely lost me.

> Wait, what does the noun change? Are you still a boy? Yes or no? How about a black man? Is he appropriately described as a "boy" or do you value your life?

Not sure why you're so insistent to mention race...in 2 of your posts you've specified "black man". What does skin colour have to do with it?

Re: Julie Ann Horvath Describes Sexism and Intimidation Behind Her GitHub Exit

#196

Post by retrogradeorbit »

sudhirj wrote: post #26
iancarroll wrote: post #6

Until there's a second side to this my GitHub use is not going to continue. Sad to see this happen, but it's not hard to change origins on my repos to BitBucket or Gitlab. edit: and again, it's two commands to push my repo back. but i have no interest in being with github at this time

But why? Despite it's dubious origins, Github remains an excellent / superior product. One may not agree with the way they do things (and even that seems to be some, not everyone in the organization), but is that really a reason to stop using the product? https://yourlogicalfallacyis.com/genetic

What makes it superior to something like bitbucket? I'll answer that for you. Nothing. It's not superior at all. It was just first.

Re: Julie Ann Horvath Describes Sexism and Intimidation Behind Her GitHub Exit

#198

Post by kansface »

LockeWatts wrote: post #113
zobzu wrote: post #89

Earlier quoted context omitted.

its super hostile. i would hope there are logs for this - but i wouldn't be surprised if there were none. as said higher it seems highly possible that she has no proof of anything - which means, if she's actually honest, she can't do much (except contacting a bunch of news sites and trying to make a big story out of it) imagine this "i did all this work but someone deleted it! worked 2 weeks on it!" while in fact you…

It's GitHub, of course there are logs of code commits ;)

Unless he rebased!

Re: Julie Ann Horvath Describes Sexism and Intimidation Behind Her GitHub Exit

#199

Post by jd0 »

interstitial wrote: post #138
bitops wrote: post #53

As usual, another HN thread that perfectly exemplifies victim blaming and a collective burying of heads in the sand. There's a few people on here who seem to get it, but most don't. I'm sick of it. Goodbye, Hacker News.

You suffer from egotistical self-righteousness. Someday, perhaps, you will no longer need to assuage your ego with delusional palliatives of moral superiority. Today a child died after a long and painful battle with cancer. Another died suddenly in a car crash after a heated argument, leaving loved ones in agony and self-doubt. Are you sure this is your battle? Perhaps you are only sick of the burden of your own unex…

Today a child died after a long and painful battle with cancer.

lol wtf

Perhaps you are only sick of the burden of your own unexamined piety and belief the universe must obey your whims.

we're getting existential now

Re: Julie Ann Horvath Describes Sexism and Intimidation Behind Her GitHub Exit

#200

Post by csense »

enneff wrote: post #90
csense wrote: post #64

I don't think this was an instance of institutionalized sexism. Rather, the founder's wife seems like an unbalanced individual, and nobody effectively set any boundaries. The other founders and HR seemed unaware or unable to set the situation to right. As for her romantically inclined co-worker -- I don't see how his behavior qualifies as sexist or hostile. Merely a bit clueless, but isn't it to be expected that empl…

Why are you making excuses for these people? What purpose does it serve? I'm especially shocked to see you trivialise the actions of the jilted engineer. Reverting someone else's work without explanation is a blatantly hostile and disrespectful act that should be treated seriously in isolation, and is made more serious still in the context of the inappropriate sexual stuff.

> Why are you making excuses for these people? What purpose does it serve?

Because I think people should question whether they're overreacting to the situation.

> I'm especially shocked to see you trivialise the actions of the jilted engineer

I edited to clarify this. Careful reading shows that:

(1) It is possible that there were legitimate technical reasons for the reverted commits.

(2) It is possible that Github did not respond to this part of the situation because they were unaware of the reversion or the context behind it.

(3) It is possible that Github took some action against the engineer in question.

(4) I'm not entirely sure that confessing romantic feelings for a co-worker is, by itself, inappropriate. Provided everyone stays cool and professional if the feelings aren't mutual (or just avoid each other if the org chart makes that possible).

(5) Reverting commits because someone rejected your romantic advances is unacceptable and unprofessional, and I edited my post to say so.

I think it is difficult to say that Github is at fault from the information given, and I fear that's the conclusion that many were jumping to. If you're such a person, you should think carefully about what the article actually said, what you are assuming, and whether those assumptions might be false.

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