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Julie Ann Horvath Describes Sexism and Intimidation Behind Her GitHub Exit

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Re: Julie Ann Horvath Describes Sexism and Intimidation Behind Her GitHub Exit

#71

Post by csense »

johnny22 wrote: post #68
csense wrote: post #64

I don't think this was an instance of institutionalized sexism. Rather, the founder's wife seems like an unbalanced individual, and nobody effectively set any boundaries. The other founders and HR seemed unaware or unable to set the situation to right. As for her romantically inclined co-worker -- I don't see how his behavior qualifies as sexist or hostile. Merely a bit clueless, but isn't it to be expected that empl…

the dude going back and deleting her code after the rejection seems pretty hostile to me.

Good point.

What probably needed to happen was whoever was in charge of that project should have recognized these two employees now didn't get along, and reassigned one or both of them away from the project.

Re: Julie Ann Horvath Describes Sexism and Intimidation Behind Her GitHub Exit

#72

Post by intortus »

lindig wrote: post #20

Two women are dancing to music at work in a tech company and the author compares this to a scene at a strip club as men are watching this. Unless this was a regular exercise, what was everybody expecting? Nobody taking notice?

And Dave Chapelle walked out of a $50 million contract because something normal (a couple of white guys laughing at a funny skit) rubbed him the wrong way. Sometimes a seemingly normal occurrence can pierce through one's facade of denial so sharply that the toxicity of the environment becomes inescapably apparent. And then what are you supposed to do? Pretend like nothing matters? Hello existential crisis.

Re: Julie Ann Horvath Describes Sexism and Intimidation Behind Her GitHub Exit

#75

Post by derefr »

bitops wrote: post #53

As usual, another HN thread that perfectly exemplifies victim blaming and a collective burying of heads in the sand. There's a few people on here who seem to get it, but most don't. I'm sick of it. Goodbye, Hacker News.

Hackers, in my experience, have more shared experience in being naive enough socially to allow themselves to be baited into making statements which are later used against them, than in actually saying things (or even associating with others who would say things) which are intentionally malicious.

We all understand fixing someone's computer and then being blamed for any problems it has from then on; or for making a software estimate and being held to it as a requirement. In short, hackers are used to being scapegoats, so the first conclusion we jump to when one of us is accused of something is that they're being scapegoated too.

This can look like "victim-blaming", but it's really more-than-anything a yearning for people to keep their standards of evidence high, and to avoid jumping to conclusions. Counterarguments and counterfactuals ("what else could have happened") aren't presented as "this is obviously what happened instead", but just to decrease confidence that the evidence presented thusfar is strong enough to prove anything much. If evidence A fits alleged narrative X, but also random equally-likely stories Y or Z, then X is no longer implied directly by A.

Re: Julie Ann Horvath Describes Sexism and Intimidation Behind Her GitHub Exit

#76

Post by zobzu »

rdl wrote: post #22

This sounds less like sexism and more just non-sexist batshit crazy people and incompetent HR. Somehow that isn't particularly better.

yeah it doesn't sound sexist much, but still batshit crazy. regardless of who's telling the truth at thing point (i doubt github will go with an explanation over this..)

hypothesis: i think shes using the fact that shes a woman to push for what she wants (as in "sexist issues, sensationalistic, lets put that in there"). she's likely to either have little/no proof or be lying - whichever, when you can't prove stuff, you tend to do exactly what shes doing (or, if you're sane, you just shut up)

Re: Julie Ann Horvath Describes Sexism and Intimidation Behind Her GitHub Exit

#77

Post by intortus »

dangero wrote: post #62
lindig wrote: post #20

Two women are dancing to music at work in a tech company and the author compares this to a scene at a strip club as men are watching this. Unless this was a regular exercise, what was everybody expecting? Nobody taking notice?

Yeah this section really damaged her credibility for me. She says the guys were "gawking", so they were not saying anything inappropriate, just "staring openly and stupidly". I can picture a professional business environment where gawking would be inappropriate, but I have a hard time picturing that environment with women hula hooping to music. Plus is gawking a crime? Yes, those random employees were being unprofess…

I didn't know that TechCrunch was strictly involved with reporting crime.

(Btw, TechCrunch asked.)

Re: Julie Ann Horvath Describes Sexism and Intimidation Behind Her GitHub Exit

#78

Post by baddox »

iancarroll wrote: post #14
iwasphone wrote: post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Isn't it better to wait until all sides of the story have been told?

The likelihood she's lying is next to zero. You don't really make these things up...

I have no evidence that she is lying, but people having definitely lied about much bigger things than this.

Re: Julie Ann Horvath Describes Sexism and Intimidation Behind Her GitHub Exit

#79

Post by theorique »

asimov42 wrote: post #41

That hula hoops bit was a bit... strange. If it were a couple of attractive girls I probably would also find myself staring. I mean, its just not something you see everyday working at an office. I understand being stared at is uncomfortable too, and they should feel free to do whatever they want of course. It just sounds like how unattractive people "stare creepily" while attractive people "look."

Watching your co-workers as they hula-hoop in the office doesn't sound terribly sexist or out of the ordinary [1]. Hula hooping in the office is offbeat enough that you'd expect people to stop and look And it's certainly not the some kind of 'last straw' sexist incident.

Obviously, what happened is that Horvath was already upset from the weirdness that had transpired thus far - and based on the article, it does sound pretty weird.

Because of this she read a lot of 'meaning' into the hula-hooping that just wasn't there. It's hard to see how this situation could be a last straw otherwise.

[1] i.e. "hula hooping in the office" is out of the ordinary ... watching something out of the ordinary is normal

Re: Julie Ann Horvath Describes Sexism and Intimidation Behind Her GitHub Exit

#80

Post by Myrmornis »

asimov42 wrote: post #41

That hula hoops bit was a bit... strange. If it were a couple of attractive girls I probably would also find myself staring. I mean, its just not something you see everyday working at an office. I understand being stared at is uncomfortable too, and they should feel free to do whatever they want of course. It just sounds like how unattractive people "stare creepily" while attractive people "look."

Absolutely agree.

  Until you spoke
  And showed me understanding is a dream
  "I hate these people staring
  Make them go away from me"
The Cure "How Beautiful You Are"
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