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Yes, The CIA Spied On Congress

dish.andrewsullivan.com

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Re: Yes, The CIA Spied On Congress

#61

Post by jtfrench »

Ihmahr wrote: post #56
jtfrench wrote: post #48

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>> A critical test? He doesn't have enough power to do anything about it. If this is indeed true, then it would mean that the US political system (which is regarded as the best example of democracy, globally) is corrupt from the core and the idea of checks & balances is completely bogus. If this is case, and if we as (Americans? people?) tolerate it, then I guess it's our implicit way of saying "corruption is indeed…

> US political system (which is regarded as the best example of democracy, globally) > regarded best globally Excuse me?

I find it hilarious how you and others ask rhetorical questions like this, as if you had trouble reading what I wrote, and need me to repeat it. Without going into this again, you can refer to my previous comments.

Re: Yes, The CIA Spied On Congress

#62

Post by jtfrench »

f_salmon wrote: post #58
galois17 wrote: post #57

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"[US political system] which is regarded as the best example of democracy, globally" err, what? As a foreigner living in the US for the last 5 years I will tell you this: The US political system is regarded as the best example of democracy, by they Americans only. Period. Having lived and traveled in Europe for the most part of my 30 years of my adult life I have heard no person having this perception of the American…

> "[US political system] which is regarded as the best example of democracy, globally" As far as I can tell, Switzerland has the best political system (with the most direct democracy) and it's really a shame that nobody seems to want to imitate it (which of course can be explained by the fact that it means more power goes to the People, not corporations/secret gvt agencies/etc, which are often allowed to buy politici…

It's a good point, and I wonder what is the ultimate underlying reason because I've heard many share that same opinion. Despite all the things the US political system gets "wrong" and other systems "get right" — somehow the US still calls the shots.

Re: Yes, The CIA Spied On Congress

#63

Post by vidarh »

jtfrench wrote: post #59
atmosx wrote: post #55

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> If this is indeed true, then it would mean that the US political system ( which is regarded as the best example of democracy, globally ) [...]. Come again?! Where did this come from, Hollywood?

just look around you. Surely I'm not the first person to mention this concept to you. I'm not saying I believe that the US has the best example of democracy, but true or not, that's the general story being "sold" on the news (and yes, in movies as well).

It's the general story being "sold" in a subset of US news.

In large part of the rest of the world, the threat of "American conditions" or similar is a frequently used political insult.

Re: Yes, The CIA Spied On Congress

#64

Post by cookiecaper »

This just in: spy organization spies on important national political figures.

Did you guys never hear of intelligence agencies before Snowden leaked his docs? This is normal and expected. It's the reason intelligence agencies and spies exist. They're supposed to spy on the most important people in the world, and make sure that the important people don't plan anything the agency's employers may consider ... untoward.

Re: Yes, The CIA Spied On Congress

#65

Post by vidarh »

line-zero wrote: post #21
suprgeek wrote: post #19

So the CIA Illegally Spied on the Congress Staffers investigating illegal CIA Torture Methods? ------illegality recursion too deep----------- But seriously this is a critical test for Pres. Obama. These agencies shouldn't be allowed to pull this kind of Shit without suffering serious consequences. Time for the Executive to step-up, fire a bunch of high-rankers and NOT sweep this under the carpet as some sort of "Bad…

>Otherwise all that Hope & Change sloganeering will be empty rhetoric. Where have you been?

The problem is that people forget where Obama comes from: Obama is not a progressive. Obama is not centre-of-the-Democratic-party. Obama is pretty much smack bang in the middle of the US political landscape today. Take him back to before the Republican Party went totally off the rails, and he might've just as easily been a left wing Republican.

The "Hope & Change" looks a lot more successful when you judge it based on an intent of returning US politics to somewhere near the centre, than if you take the unrealistic proposition that it would bring the US to some point well left of Clinton which a lot of people seemed to have thought and hoped it might.

Re: Yes, The CIA Spied On Congress

#66

Post by aaronbrethorst »

jtfrench wrote: post #48
fragsworth wrote: post #41

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> But seriously this is a critical test for Pres. Obama. A critical test? He doesn't have enough power to do anything about it. He can't even get rid of Guantanamo, which was central to his campaign. His response to the Snowden leaks was entirely supportive of the intelligence community, against the general public's perception of what happened. A political figure like him supporting Snowden would have made a massive…

>> A critical test? He doesn't have enough power to do anything about it. If this is indeed true, then it would mean that the US political system (which is regarded as the best example of democracy, globally) is corrupt from the core and the idea of checks & balances is completely bogus. If this is case, and if we as (Americans? people?) tolerate it, then I guess it's our implicit way of saying "corruption is indeed…

> the idea of checks & balances is completely bogus.

Those checks and balances are keeping Gitmo open.

http://politicalticker.blogs.cnn.com/2013/12/26/obama-takes-...

Re: Yes, The CIA Spied On Congress

#67

Post by amirmc »

jtfrench wrote: post #60
galois17 wrote: post #57

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"[US political system] which is regarded as the best example of democracy, globally" err, what? As a foreigner living in the US for the last 5 years I will tell you this: The US political system is regarded as the best example of democracy, by they Americans only. Period. Having lived and traveled in Europe for the most part of my 30 years of my adult life I have heard no person having this perception of the American…

You (and many others) are having a knee-jerk reaction to what I said. I'm not saying that the US has the best example of democracy (and based on the rest of my post, you would think that would have come across). What I am saying is that there is a widespread public perception that "America knows best" — the news supports this, Hollywood supports this, and yes, loads of people around the globe support this notion as w…

So you're extrapolating from the fact that people like Coke, Xboxes, CoD and pizza (which is Italian btw) that they must also adore America? That's way too much of a stretch.

Re: Yes, The CIA Spied On Congress

#68

Post by malloreon »

suprgeek wrote: post #19

So the CIA Illegally Spied on the Congress Staffers investigating illegal CIA Torture Methods? ------illegality recursion too deep----------- But seriously this is a critical test for Pres. Obama. These agencies shouldn't be allowed to pull this kind of Shit without suffering serious consequences. Time for the Executive to step-up, fire a bunch of high-rankers and NOT sweep this under the carpet as some sort of "Bad…

fire a bunch of high rankers? put every single one of them regardless of rank on public trial. Lengthy prison terms for everyone.

Re: Yes, The CIA Spied On Congress

#69

Post by mattlutze »

f_salmon wrote: post #58
galois17 wrote: post #57

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"[US political system] which is regarded as the best example of democracy, globally" err, what? As a foreigner living in the US for the last 5 years I will tell you this: The US political system is regarded as the best example of democracy, by they Americans only. Period. Having lived and traveled in Europe for the most part of my 30 years of my adult life I have heard no person having this perception of the American…

> "[US political system] which is regarded as the best example of democracy, globally" As far as I can tell, Switzerland has the best political system (with the most direct democracy) and it's really a shame that nobody seems to want to imitate it (which of course can be explained by the fact that it means more power goes to the People, not corporations/secret gvt agencies/etc, which are often allowed to buy politici…

Switzerland has strong redistributive system. From a layman's perspective, it would seem this can be supported by the very high profits in the financial and high-end finished goods markets.

In an economy without such high GDP and average household income, I wonder if it would still be such an effective or model system.

Re: Yes, The CIA Spied On Congress

#70

Post by galois17 »

jtfrench wrote: post #60
galois17 wrote: post #57

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"[US political system] which is regarded as the best example of democracy, globally" err, what? As a foreigner living in the US for the last 5 years I will tell you this: The US political system is regarded as the best example of democracy, by they Americans only. Period. Having lived and traveled in Europe for the most part of my 30 years of my adult life I have heard no person having this perception of the American…

You (and many others) are having a knee-jerk reaction to what I said. I'm not saying that the US has the best example of democracy (and based on the rest of my post, you would think that would have come across). What I am saying is that there is a widespread public perception that "America knows best" — the news supports this, Hollywood supports this, and yes, loads of people around the globe support this notion as w…

There is no logical connection between the two following statements:

   - x buys american products  
   - x considers US the best political system in the world
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