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Yes, The CIA Spied On Congress

dish.andrewsullivan.com

21–30 of 98 posts

Re: Yes, The CIA Spied On Congress

#21

So the CIA Illegally Spied on the Congress Staffers investigating illegal CIA Torture Methods? ------illegality recursion too deep----------- But seriously this is a critical test for Pres. Obama. These agencies shouldn't be allowed to pull this kind of Shit without suffering serious consequences. Time for the Executive to step-up, fire a bunch of high-rankers and NOT sweep this under the carpet as some sort of "Bad…

>Otherwise all that Hope & Change sloganeering will be empty rhetoric.

Where have you been?

Re: Yes, The CIA Spied On Congress

#22

So the CIA Illegally Spied on the Congress Staffers investigating illegal CIA Torture Methods? ------illegality recursion too deep----------- But seriously this is a critical test for Pres. Obama. These agencies shouldn't be allowed to pull this kind of Shit without suffering serious consequences. Time for the Executive to step-up, fire a bunch of high-rankers and NOT sweep this under the carpet as some sort of "Bad…

I don't think firing is going to do much though it is a good start. It's the law that needs change. In fact, in Edgar Hoover's FBI era, spying on the entire government was a norm. Presidents were afraid of Hoover. Before we end up with a second Edgar, or a second McCarthy Red Scare, yeah, I think we should step up and make a firm change. But I am hopeless. Election is coming up and everyone is too busy on every other issue. Intelligence and privacy have always been neglected in election despite most Americans continues shows against NSA spying (https://www.eff.org/deeplinks/2013/10/polls-continue-show-ma...). After watching House of Cards, I don't know politics work anymore. I understand the show was a drama, but if you tell me that half of the congressmen wasn't expecting CIA or NSA secretly watching them I think that's probably a naive mistake.

Somehow, we will find a way to compromise. Some people are 100% against any surveillance, some are okay with 70%, some are okay with 40% and some are okay with 100% of surveillance. The end result of compromise may end up ugly like a bandaid.

Re: Yes, The CIA Spied On Congress

#23
post #7

The thing I would be wondering in a Congressperson's shoes shoes: what other things have I been doing that the CIA has been spying on? Chilling effects indeed. And for those inclined to brush that away as implausible, it might be time for a refresher on J. Edgar Hoover and his secret files on political leaders. [1] 50 years later, our tech is a lot better, so it would be much easier to gain inordinate power through s…

Late in life and after his death Hoover became a controversial figure, as evidence of his secretive actions became known. His critics have accused him of exceeding the jurisdiction of the FBI.[1] He used the FBI to harass political dissenters and activists, to amass secret files on political leaders,[2] and to collect evidence using illegal methods.[3] Hoover consequently amassed a great deal of power and was in a po…

Somebody disagrees that his files prevented him getting fired. Does anybody dispute that he kept files on political leaders that had information that they didn't want revealed?

Re: Yes, The CIA Spied On Congress

#24
post #2

Anyone want to make bets over whether anyone will ever be legally punished over this?

They figured out how to immunize themselves during the Bush administration. Get a compliant lawyer to write a memo saying whatever you want to do is legal. Then you are relying on advice of counsel which tends to defeat the mens rea necessary to convict of a crime. The lawyer is also not liable because it's not a crime to give bad legal advice.

This technique is how everyone at the CIA got the hook for destroying video evidence of torture which had already been requested by a congressional committee and a federal court in 2005. It's also explains Yoo's farcical torture memos -- they may not pass the straight face test but they still were a major barrier to criminal liability for those who procured them.

Re: Yes, The CIA Spied On Congress

#25

So the CIA Illegally Spied on the Congress Staffers investigating illegal CIA Torture Methods? ------illegality recursion too deep----------- But seriously this is a critical test for Pres. Obama. These agencies shouldn't be allowed to pull this kind of Shit without suffering serious consequences. Time for the Executive to step-up, fire a bunch of high-rankers and NOT sweep this under the carpet as some sort of "Bad…

>Otherwise all that Hope & Change sloganeering will be empty rhetoric.

Will?

Re: Yes, The CIA Spied On Congress

#26
post #7

The thing I would be wondering in a Congressperson's shoes shoes: what other things have I been doing that the CIA has been spying on? Chilling effects indeed. And for those inclined to brush that away as implausible, it might be time for a refresher on J. Edgar Hoover and his secret files on political leaders. [1] 50 years later, our tech is a lot better, so it would be much easier to gain inordinate power through s…

Late in life and after his death Hoover became a controversial figure, as evidence of his secretive actions became known. His critics have accused him of exceeding the jurisdiction of the FBI.[1] He used the FBI to harass political dissenters and activists, to amass secret files on political leaders,[2] and to collect evidence using illegal methods.[3] Hoover consequently amassed a great deal of power and was in a po…

Some on Wikipedia are also on a payroll. Including in articles about commercial products and companies, but even more so in political articles.

Re: Yes, The CIA Spied On Congress

#28
post #22

So the CIA Illegally Spied on the Congress Staffers investigating illegal CIA Torture Methods? ------illegality recursion too deep----------- But seriously this is a critical test for Pres. Obama. These agencies shouldn't be allowed to pull this kind of Shit without suffering serious consequences. Time for the Executive to step-up, fire a bunch of high-rankers and NOT sweep this under the carpet as some sort of "Bad…

I don't think firing is going to do much though it is a good start. It's the law that needs change. In fact, in Edgar Hoover's FBI era, spying on the entire government was a norm. Presidents were afraid of Hoover. Before we end up with a second Edgar, or a second McCarthy Red Scare, yeah, I think we should step up and make a firm change. But I am hopeless. Election is coming up and everyone is too busy on every other…

OK, but there is a problem upstream of that -- the CIA has NO jurisdiction inside the US. They are a foreign intelligence operation.

Myself, I'd propose a battle royale between the CIA and NSA. Do a giant wargame, see which can pwn the other faster/better. Two agencies enter, one leaves.

The surviving agency is then split into foreign and domestic branches, with a sane level of cooperation.

Re: Yes, The CIA Spied On Congress

#29
http://www.mcclatchydc.com/2014/03/05/220273/senate-staffers...

>Congressional aides involved in preparing the Senate Intelligence Committee’s unreleased study of the CIA’s secret interrogation and detention program walked out of the spy agency’s fortress-like headquarters with classified documents that the CIA contended they weren’t authorized to have, McClatchy has learned.

>After the CIA confronted the panel in January about the removal of the material last fall, panel staff concluded that the agency had monitored computers they’d been given to use in a high-security research room at the CIA campus in Langley, Va., a McClatchy investigation found.

>The documents removed from the agency included a draft of an internal CIA review that at least one lawmaker has publicly said showed that agency leaders misled the Intelligence Committee in disputing some of the committee report’s findings, according to a knowledgeable person who requested anonymity because of the matter’s extraordinary sensitivity.

>Some committee members regard the monitoring as a possible violation of the law and contend that their oversight powers give them the right to the documents that were removed. On the other hand, the CIA considers the removal as a massive security breach because the agency doesn’t believe that the committee had a right to those particular materials.

[...]

>While eating lunch during a visit to New Britain, Conn., with four New England governors, Obama was asked by a reporter if he had any reaction to the allegation that the CIA monitored Intelligence Committee computers.

>“I’m going to try to make sure I don’t spill anything on my tie,” he responded.

Re: Yes, The CIA Spied On Congress

#30
post #26

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Late in life and after his death Hoover became a controversial figure, as evidence of his secretive actions became known. His critics have accused him of exceeding the jurisdiction of the FBI.[1] He used the FBI to harass political dissenters and activists, to amass secret files on political leaders,[2] and to collect evidence using illegal methods.[3] Hoover consequently amassed a great deal of power and was in a po…

Some on Wikipedia are also on a payroll. Including in articles about commercial products and companies, but even more so in political articles.

Really? That's very interesting. Do you have a link or further info about that?
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