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We Have Luxurious Jobs but We Are Not Aware of It

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Re: We Have Luxurious Jobs but We Are Not Aware of It

#291

Post by lepunk »

I'm fortunate enough to been able to do both manual labor and office work (coding) too, so I think I'm less critical about my job compared to someone who got a decent one straight out from uni.

After high-school I had a bunch of temporary jobs working with builders, carpenters, etc in Hungary for less than £10 / day. I was happy because it paid my day-to-day expenses.

Then I moved to London where I took a minimal wage "biorobot " job in a factory for £5.5 / hour. I sincerely thought I have a great, well paid job. I was happy

Then I applied for a startup as the first coder there, got hired and I'm still with them after 6 years. I don't even know exactly how much I make on a hourly basis, but I don't really care. I'm happy

It is all just perspective. You can be the happiest person on a very low salary, or be depressed and cranky about your job even if you make millions.

I do think programmers deserve high salaries, and luxury like working from home. Why? Because our profession is extremely unique. Every single day we have the potential to solve a problem which never been solved before.

Re: We Have Luxurious Jobs but We Are Not Aware of It

#292

Post by mhurron »

vkjv wrote: post #258
lectrick wrote: post #223

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sedentary jobs have sedentary risks: http://www.washingtonpost.com/lifestyle/wellness/even-with-e... I own a GeekDesk and swear by it. Standing sometimes while coding makes a difference!

I was interested in these, but, zomg, it's hard to take the company seriously with that faux-hawk dude on the front page.

It's hard to take them seriously when they appear to be selling a block of press board on a couple of metal stands for $1000.

To be fair, it seems all standing desks are insanely priced.

Re: We Have Luxurious Jobs but We Are Not Aware of It

#293

Post by cuillevel3 »

I think we idealize our jobs. They're stressful and dangerous. Stress, obesity, back, blood circulation and respiratory problems do kill eventually.

Then there is depression, working alone, never going outside.

But hey, you could always become a consultant: travel much, eat badly, work everywhere, ignore ergonomics...

And one more thing, I wouldn't compare myself to the millions of unemployed, or low-wage workers, but to the upper middle class.

Re: We Have Luxurious Jobs but We Are Not Aware of It

#294

Post by eLobato »

walshemj wrote: post #255
khuey wrote: post #58

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Software engineers are concentrated in major metropolitan areas, often high cost ones (e.g. the SF bay area), so comparisons to the national median income are not necessarily accurate.

You would need to compare it to other professions lawyers/medical doctors and other types of engineers - and I woudl bet that the median for those working in the tech industry's is lower than MD's and lawyers

So is the average level of education of people working in the tech industry and the barriers of entry.

Re: We Have Luxurious Jobs but We Are Not Aware of It

#295

Post by lostcolony »

Even reading some of these comments is a bit nauseating.

If you are a software dev, designer, etc, in almost any part of the world where you can read this, you are massively lucky.

Nevermind the whole "You have internet access and can develop software for a living? Welcome to the top 50% in the world", etc; there are people in your area barely scraping by; if your only metric is others in the same economic bracket, get out more.

One of my hobbies is a martial art. Many of the students there are in much poorer straights than myself. One in particular, a young adult nearly out of high school, and already working, rides 10 miles each way to work and the martial arts school on his bike, because he can't afford public transportation. He lives paycheck to paycheck, and has to work out special payment arrangements with the instructor because of it. I don't really care if his day job is 'easier' than mine (I did it once; it wasn't for me, but whose to say it isn't for him); he has to stress how to cover bills, how to get to work when not feeling great and facing a 10 mile bike ride there and back, etc. I can call in and WFH because I have the sniffles. Or drive, because I have a car, and the funds to keep up insurance, gas, repairs, etc.

If you enjoy coding, and you get paid enough for it to cover your bills and stash some away, you are massively, massively lucky. Is it as good a break as it could, or should (were this a utopia) be? No. But compared to the unfairness many others face, you should be reveling in it, while trying to affect change not just for yourself but those who are in harder circumstances.

Re: We Have Luxurious Jobs but We Are Not Aware of It

#296

Post by ctdonath »

PhasmaFelis wrote: post #279
kamaal wrote: post #278

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The concept of 'works X hours on job Y so deserves Z' is totally bogus. You have to reveal how much Y is in demand, what kind of risks are involved and what kind of predictability exists in in the results doing Y. An accountant working 70 hrs a week at $20/hr will take $1400 a week. A start up guy will take $0 if it things go sour. That is the difference. Do you wish to settle for $1400/week without risks or take a r…

You're confusing "start-up programming" with "programming," I probably that seems to be endemic on Hacker News.

He's pointing out the risk factor, a severely (and deliberately?) overlooked aspect of the "income inequality" rhetoric. Consistency of income has it's own significant non-monetary value. There's more to benefits of a job than just the paycheck, such as not worrying month-to-month whether you're going to make your mortgage/rent payment vs getting evicted. Many lower-paying jobs remain consistent regardless of whether you're sweating hard for 8 hours or watching TV for hours waiting for a customer to show up & need you for 10 seconds; that vs higher-paying jobs which are deeply connected to the actual value of every second of productivity ... everyone would like the profitability of the latter, but the assurance of income of the former can make it the better choice (given common circumstances).

Re: We Have Luxurious Jobs but We Are Not Aware of It

#297

Post by aestra »

jckt wrote: post #268
pmichaud wrote: post #179

There are definitely amazing, luxurious aspects of programming. Something came into view for me recently though, that I never realized before: When I graduated from high school, I started my own little (tutoring) company, and did software from after that, so I never had the experience of a "normal", hourly job, like retail or coal mining or whatever. Recently I had an opportunity to do a job like that and the mood st…

Try cheffing. Up to 16 hours a day at a high-end place with only a 5 minute breakfast break, 5 minute supper break. Mind's constantly working. Certainly not solving world hunger, but creativity and concentration are required all the time. Shit job if you don't really care much about food, and even if you do, the job itself is still not that great.

It is interesting that in some places there are mandatory break times, where I grew up you had to have a half hour break per 8 hour shift or something like that, even with these laws, those working conditions still persist. Some employers might not even be aware of them. I worked for one that was super not-breaking-the-law type and one that was who-the-hell-has-time-to-research-that-shit? type. Both in food prep and service.

Re: We Have Luxurious Jobs but We Are Not Aware of It

#298

Post by cmiles74 »

cwaniak wrote: post #261
cmiles74 wrote: post #145

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And without the 97% of people doing the actual work, the "organizer" wouldn't have a job either. Sure, presently management is making a grossly disproportionate amount of the profit but that doesn't make it right. This lack of balance is one of the looming economic crises facing the US. Your blithe comment implies that this is reasonable, I strongly disagree.

Please keep in mind that any of the 97% could be a job organizer too. It's a choice. I strongly disagree with children dying of cancer. But that's just the way this world works. People have this thing in their psyche were they want a "parent" to provide them money, shelter, security in exchange for their obedience (disguised as "work"). Getting rid of this childish mentality is good for you.

I believe that your cancer analogy is weak, in this instance. It may not have been your intent to be insulting, but I find it challenging to read your response without feeling insulted. Casting my response as "childish" strikes me as unreasonable, as well as linking me with the people "who have this thing in their psyche". These are not issues I have.

In any case, we're not talking about something irrefutable, like a law of physics. Income inequality has been on the rise in the US since the 70's and is, possibly, one of the causes contributing to the shrinking of the middle class.[0]

I am not advocating that anyone gets anything for free, rather that the majority of the employed receive equitable pay. The current distribution, were a nearly obscene amount is squeezed towards the top of the organization, is unsustainable and, I would argue, unhealthy for the economy.

Again, to reiterate, I am not arguing that the managers should no longer be paid or that they should make less than those they manage. I'm simply pointing out that, at present, the top tiers of management are making far too much and this effects the income of everyone further down the ladder.

[0]: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Income_inequality_in_the_United...

Re: We Have Luxurious Jobs but We Are Not Aware of It

#299

Post by logfromblammo »

beachstartup wrote: post #202
logfromblammo wrote: post #180

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Ok, that's almost there. Now instead of sitting at a bar, sit at a public park while reading a book. And instead of being propositioned by ugly people, let's say that they are pimps, each trying to get you to stand on their street corner. Also, you have a big, fat wedding ring, and a huge sign around your neck saying "NO PIMPS". Also, you don't know this, since you ignore them as much as you can, but the pimps' custo…

are you seriously comparing receiving emails and voicemails from shitty recruiters to the pimping of prostitutes ... i think you're proving my point more than refuting it.

No. I was pointing out how the previous analogy was flawed. People expect to talk to strangers at bars, particularly about a specific purpose.

People sit on park benches to enjoy public space without being bothered by random strangers. It doesn't have to be a pimp that spams you. It could be a construction foreman asking you to fill sandbags at his worksite, or a cab dispatcher wanting you to drive around town collecting fares. Complaining about people that annoy you with offers for work that you don't want is complaining that they don't actually care what you want, not just complaining that you have so many opportunities available.

But even my current employer doesn't care what I want, or even that I am an actual human being that still exists on this planet for the 128 hours a week that are not recorded on my time card. So it isn't just the recruiters. My complaint, such as it is, is that I resent the dehumanization of my industry and the diminishing levels of respect I see for people that have the same valuable skill as I do from the people that do not.

Basically, I'm complaining that nerds are not popular. I can see how that complaint would be easily dismissed, even by the nerds.

Re: We Have Luxurious Jobs but We Are Not Aware of It

#300

Post by cwaniak »

cmiles74 wrote: post #298
cwaniak wrote: post #261

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Please keep in mind that any of the 97% could be a job organizer too. It's a choice. I strongly disagree with children dying of cancer. But that's just the way this world works. People have this thing in their psyche were they want a "parent" to provide them money, shelter, security in exchange for their obedience (disguised as "work"). Getting rid of this childish mentality is good for you.

I believe that your cancer analogy is weak, in this instance. It may not have been your intent to be insulting, but I find it challenging to read your response without feeling insulted. Casting my response as "childish" strikes me as unreasonable, as well as linking me with the people "who have this thing in their psyche". These are not issues I have. In any case, we're not talking about something irrefutable, like a…

For me maybe it is a little bit like law of physics. There are rich and there are poor. There are healthy, there are sick. The world is a cruel place that's just not fair no matter how you slice it. Maybe death is great equalizer - makes us all equal in the end. There is no way to fight it, that's by "design" (i.e. 'law of physics'). Accepting this world as it is and living happy regardless, for me, that's the border between the world of adults and the world of children. I prefer to insult you (even though I didn't want to) than to be disrespectful (in the sense of not saying openly what I really believe in, don't want to be dishonest).
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