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We Have Luxurious Jobs but We Are Not Aware of It

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Re: We Have Luxurious Jobs but We Are Not Aware of It

#261

Post by cwaniak »

cmiles74 wrote: post #145
cwaniak wrote: post #106

Earlier quoted context omitted.

97% of people want to work. Like to code. That's what they want to do. And they expect the other 3% to organize these jobs for them. Because they don't know/can't/aren't interested in organizing these jobs on their own. It really boils down to: do you want to be a craftsman or wealthy man. Because if you want to be in the 3% organizing jobs for others, you won't have any time to do coding. It's very easy to end up in…

And without the 97% of people doing the actual work, the "organizer" wouldn't have a job either. Sure, presently management is making a grossly disproportionate amount of the profit but that doesn't make it right. This lack of balance is one of the looming economic crises facing the US. Your blithe comment implies that this is reasonable, I strongly disagree.

Please keep in mind that any of the 97% could be a job organizer too. It's a choice. I strongly disagree with children dying of cancer. But that's just the way this world works. People have this thing in their psyche were they want a "parent" to provide them money, shelter, security in exchange for their obedience (disguised as "work"). Getting rid of this childish mentality is good for you.

Re: We Have Luxurious Jobs but We Are Not Aware of It

#262

Post by seanccox »

MarkPNeyer wrote: post #95
jaimebuelta wrote: post #81

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It is true that luxury is relative, but, from an external point of view, when I was a kid, I remembered commenting with people how everyone in American movies seemed to be rich, even when depicted as "low middle class" (huge houses, a couple of cars, tons of clothes, toys, etc) We are not talking about having an helicopter, but my family bought our first car when I had 15 years, and live in a relative small flat for…

The point parent is making, i think, is this: The people running the show can't have everybody thinking 'wow i'm getting fucked' because then the show is over. they need a buffer; people who think they have it really well off because they look at how hard the people below them have it. when the people at the very bottom start to complain about their situation and say they're being screwed by the rich, the people who…

Lenin had something to say on this very subject... which I can unfortunately only paraphrase – something to the effect of, "The working class can never truly trust the middle class, because while the middle class will sympathize with the aspirations of working class people, they will betray them when their own comfort level is threatened".

Wait... maybe it was Trotsky? Goddamned communists are so difficult to keep straight.

Re: We Have Luxurious Jobs but We Are Not Aware of It

#263

Post by freehunter »

vkjv wrote: post #258
lectrick wrote: post #223

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sedentary jobs have sedentary risks: http://www.washingtonpost.com/lifestyle/wellness/even-with-e... I own a GeekDesk and swear by it. Standing sometimes while coding makes a difference!

I was interested in these, but, zomg, it's hard to take the company seriously with that faux-hawk dude on the front page.

I don't see a faux hawk dude on the front page. I'm getting a professional woman in a pantsuit. If I refresh, I see who you're talking about when it loads another picture. I think it's meant to illustrate that they're not just professional desks, they can be great for (college folks/rockstar ninja startup founders/punk-rock songwriters).

Re: We Have Luxurious Jobs but We Are Not Aware of It

#264

Post by ForHackernews »

djb_hackernews wrote: post #241
nsxwolf wrote: post #221

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You can certainly do this in Chicago. Especially if you're flexible on the commute time and can handle an hour on the train. The suburbs also have developer jobs.

That's true anywhere right? But we shouldn't have to be flexible with an hour commute on a train while at the same time being told we live a life of luxury and are over paid. It appears to me the cognitive dissonance going on here similar to the SF people who say "It's not so bad, I found a studio for 2k/month in Oakland!" If we were truly overpaid and in such demand we wouldn't live in crappy studios or be priced ou…

Look, unless you're a billionaire (and really, even then) life comes with tradeoffs. If you want to live in a super-expensive area, you're going to get a smaller/crappier place. If you're willing to put up with a longer commute, you'll get more for money in terms of housing.

The point is, you have the luxury of being able to make those choices. What about the people who sweep the floors in your office? What about the people who work at the trendy cafe where you eat lunch?

Re: We Have Luxurious Jobs but We Are Not Aware of It

#265

Post by vostrocity »

Akujin wrote: post #238
conanbatt wrote: post #233

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Don't confound price with value! Software programmers and Engineers work an inmense amount to build things that are commercially unsuccessful. In fact, most projects are botched completely, let alone those that run at a loss, before you get the big wins. There is a definite disproportion of price/value across all professions, and programmers are today in the spectrum where the expectations are rather low. 20 years fr…

I don't really see us getting many more IT/CS engineers anytime soon. The amount of businesses that actually need a programmer / tech person on staff keeps increasing while the amount of engineers out there stays relatively the same. That's why we can charge so much for our hours. It's a seller's market. Even if the country decided to make programming part of the elementary school curriculum it wouldn't necessarily t…

>computer science & IT people tend to be nerds/geeks who like to tinker in their free time and as a percentage of the population they stay relatively the same from year to year

Why do you say that?

I think you may be thinking too much in the short-term. I was actually wondering what programmers in their mid-20s today are going to be doing when they're, say, 70. How many programmers in their 70s do we have today? Very little, because computing was in its infancy 50 years ago. With every generation, more and more are being exposed to computing/programming at an early age.

You also have to remember that there are tinkerers in not just the computing field. Think about the weekend woodworkers, car guys, model aircraft enthusiasts; could many of them be tinkering with software if they were exposed and educated in it at the right age? I say yes. On the macro scale, we are only at the dawn of computing and the internet, and there are going to be MANY more people working on it in the future.

Re: We Have Luxurious Jobs but We Are Not Aware of It

#266

Post by arg01 »

aidenn0 wrote: post #102
throwaway812 wrote: post #30

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I agree with the sentiment, but I think your facts are a bit off and reflect HN insularity. The median 33% household income ("middle class") in the US is $30,000 to $62,500 ( household ). Even if you are the sole earner in your household, it is still unlikely that you make less than $62,500. If you do make less than that, ask for a raise. If you don't make less than that, or your combined household income is more tha…

You arbitrarily picked the midle tertile. There is a much bigger difference in lifestyle between the 33rd and 67th percentile or the 90th percentile and the 99th percentile than there is between the 67th percentile and the 90th percentile. I would argue that wealth is a better measure of class than income anyway. There is an inflection point on the wealth curve, which (when you cross it) all you need to is not screw…

Yep, at about 2 million dollars you could go to a small friendly town buy a house there and have an income close to the median (and have your assets track with inflation) assuming you can get a 5-6% return on investment, not at all unachievable on 'safe' long term investments. This is all without doing a single hour of work after hitting that point.

Re: We Have Luxurious Jobs but We Are Not Aware of It

#267

Post by dmamills »

I used to work as a line cook, I made ~$13/hr (Canadian) and I worked from 5pm-3am, about 6 days a week including weekends. It stole my life away from me. The world of kitchens was hot, hostile, fast-paced and overall just terrible. There were no sick days. I did it from age 15-22. It's not to say that I didn't love it because I did, but it was hell.

Now I sit at a desk all day and get paid to type out a fancy language at a leisurely pace for nearly three times as much. It's insane how hard I used to work for so little, compared to how much I now get paid to work so little.

Re: We Have Luxurious Jobs but We Are Not Aware of It

#268

Post by jckt »

pmichaud wrote: post #179

There are definitely amazing, luxurious aspects of programming. Something came into view for me recently though, that I never realized before: When I graduated from high school, I started my own little (tutoring) company, and did software from after that, so I never had the experience of a "normal", hourly job, like retail or coal mining or whatever. Recently I had an opportunity to do a job like that and the mood st…

Try cheffing. Up to 16 hours a day at a high-end place with only a 5 minute breakfast break, 5 minute supper break. Mind's constantly working. Certainly not solving world hunger, but creativity and concentration are required all the time. Shit job if you don't really care much about food, and even if you do, the job itself is still not that great.

Re: We Have Luxurious Jobs but We Are Not Aware of It

#269

Post by grownseed »

From the sound of it, it's not so much a luxury problem but rather one of integrity... If you feel like the comfort of your home or your lack of motivation somehow make your job "luxurious", I'm sorry to say that the problem is in all likelihood mostly with you and not the profession. I would probably call that apathy and/or privilege.

I worked from home for quite a while, and the simple idea of getting rewarded for not achieving anything made me feel guilty and inadequate. I also happened to work in kitchens from a very young age for a few years, with ridiculous hours and pay as one would imagine, yet I often consider getting back to it. There's a particular sense of satisfaction in cooking that I've never found in programming.

All jobs come with their upsides and downsides, and all professions have people who get paid too much or not enough. I don't think you can lump in personalities and activities together like that.

I realize my tone might come through as a bit harsh, and I'm sorry if it does. I'm just a bit tired of the lazy well-off programmer stereotype, it undermines a lot of us in several ways.

Re: We Have Luxurious Jobs but We Are Not Aware of It

#270

Post by 2arrs2ells »

pmichaud wrote: post #179

There are definitely amazing, luxurious aspects of programming. Something came into view for me recently though, that I never realized before: When I graduated from high school, I started my own little (tutoring) company, and did software from after that, so I never had the experience of a "normal", hourly job, like retail or coal mining or whatever. Recently I had an opportunity to do a job like that and the mood st…

"Think of a gas station attendant sitting around watching TV most of the day, the night audit at the hotel, or the guy flipping burgers when it's not lunch time."

I've been thinking about this a bit lately... What can we build to help people make the most of these spare cycles? Duolingo is perfect for this. What else could people produce/learn in spare time on their phone?

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