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Silk Road 2 Hacked, All Bitcoins Stolen

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Re: Silk Road 2 Hacked, All Bitcoins Stolen

#431
post #421
post #393

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I'm not sure I understand how that gives you personally more control. Because you don't pay for the services you don't want, unlike with government. Government can decide to come after you and hurt you, after a lifetime of taking a large portion of your income. Again, it's just like any market. Obviously one individual doesn't have direct control over what bread a supermarket stocks, but a competitive market of gro…

But you may still be subject to someone else's concepts of justice, with no control over that at all. It removes even the illusion of democratic control and makes you subject to the whims of others, especially if they have more money.

> But you may still be subject to someone else's concepts of justice, with no control over that at all.

That sounds like the current state of all governments, unless you're one of the tiny portion of society that gets to decide what government does.

> It removes even the illusion of democratic control and makes you subject to the whims of others, especially if they have more money.

I don't desire democratic control or the illusion thereof. In fact, democratic control "makes you subject to the whims of others, especially if they have more money," so I don't understand why you implied a difference between the two.

Re: Silk Road 2 Hacked, All Bitcoins Stolen

#432

This is seriously the most hilarious thing I have read in a long time. Here we have a group of objectivist libertarians who believe that there should be effectively no laws other than the law of economics and self-interest who run an illegal website devoted to the pure greed of cashing in on contraband, and this is what they write: "I’ve included transaction logs at the bottom of this message. Review the vendor’s dis…

Haha You nailed it!!

Re: Silk Road 2 Hacked, All Bitcoins Stolen

#433
post #431
post #421

Earlier quoted context omitted.

But you may still be subject to someone else's concepts of justice, with no control over that at all. It removes even the illusion of democratic control and makes you subject to the whims of others, especially if they have more money.

> But you may still be subject to someone else's concepts of justice, with no control over that at all. That sounds like the current state of all governments, unless you're one of the tiny portion of society that gets to decide what government does. > It removes even the illusion of democratic control and makes you subject to the whims of others, especially if they have more money. I don't desire democratic control o…

If they're the same that doesn't make one superior to the other. QED.

Re: Silk Road 2 Hacked, All Bitcoins Stolen

#434
post #411
post #245

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's not the same thing as not having laws. That's like saying that a competitive market for food is the same thing as having no food.

a war of all against all is not law.

"But without the government, people would immediately start killing each other, and the last person remaining would commit suicide. Heck, I would gladly kill you right now if no one would be watching." - that is your argument, essentially. No, I don't think that would happen. Most people are not evil enough to willingly hurt other people, and most of the evil ones are not courageous enough to willingly hurt other people and risk being shot.

Re: Silk Road 2 Hacked, All Bitcoins Stolen

#435
post #368
post #332

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The problem is when it comes to force. I've read a couple of libertarian leaning books after having similar conversations on HN and they all seem to believe that a monopoly won't spring up on force due to market forces and people wisely deciding to pay someone else to stop a company getting to large. It just seems naive, one of the key premises of the free market is that those who do a job better (cost/quality) grow…

That's certainly a valid criticism, and one that advocates of polycentric legal systems think about a lot. It's pretty clearly that some parts of a "defense agency" would enjoy economies of scale, while others wouldn't. Purchasing weaponry would scale well, while providing local service "on the ground" (e.g. police, detectives, etc.) probably wouldn't. I wouldn't claim to be able to prove that a monopoly couldn't pos…

Sorry this got longer than I thought.

Though I feel it isn't a main point (and giving this reasoning doesn't prove a monopoly will form) I will point out that on the ground sending a patrol to an area is inherently more efficient the more customers you have in that area and that this is a large part of police labour. I'll also point out that once a local monopoly/oligopoly forms if you wish to start a competing company you need to either accept the large capital investment of starting the company for 1/4~1/2 the area (say city) or alternatively you are surrounded by a larger force that has a reason to want you out.

As to whether or not monopolies will form (while in no way proof) I will offer as example that generally throughout history establishments of force (gangs, organised crime syndicates, city states, warlords, tribes, governments) seem to exert the majority of their force in areas of control and it is only at the edges between two of these powers that you have a choice between these powers (and often the area is more dangerous because of it).

As to why governments today aren't on a rampage. I will point out that these governments have effectively formed coalitions or come under the protection of larger allies to allow them to have sole or mostly sole control over their people (A situation that would not necesarily be as nice for a lot of the people if the governments were instead local monopolies on force with no obligations to the populous). Lastly I'd point out that many smaller countries complain about the US/China/Russia as bullies on the international stage and that they have bought force against "startup" force companies (tongue in cheek, obviously) such as say terrorists.

I realise you might be saying the cost of aggression is prohibitive, but I'd say it's the fact that the large players can't advance without being destroyed (MAD) that keeps the system somewhat stable. I'd also point out that the number of countries changes and that generally it seems like there is a trend to consolidation, even if it's playing out over decades/centuries.

>Of course, a more rhetorical approach to this criticism is that even if it happens, you're basically left with a government.

I don't disagree, but it would not be likely to be a government that the majority would want more than the current system (at least in first world countries, as I'm sure you'd agree). What it comes down to for me the fact that the market for force doesn't have as strong external/internal checks and balances. So it would (I believe) likely deteriorate to something worse than what we have now, before moving slowly back through the steps to something approaching our current systems.

Re: Silk Road 2 Hacked, All Bitcoins Stolen

#436

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's funny how me pointing out the stupidity and bullshit of a group of criminals makes me an asshole... But a guy who has actually lost people's money, put them at risk of reprisal from drug dealers, helped people (potentially young people) commit major crimes, enabled future addicts, and potentially is lying about the security flaw to steal all this money while spouting hypocritical contradictory statements...is a…

How did "stop being a jackass" turn into "I support the guy who stole the money"? Zed, I want to make myself clear, here: I have absolutely nothing to say whatsoever about whatever substantive claims you might be making. I'm just telling you to stop being a asshole about it. But fuck it, I told you pretty much the exact same thing[1] almost 3 years ago, and you haven't changed since then. It's not your message that t…

> Zed, I want to make myself clear, here: I have absolutely nothing to say whatsoever about whatever substantive claims you might be making. I'm just telling you to stop being a asshole about it.

For what it's worth, this is Responding to Tone, or DH2[#]

#: http://www.paulgraham.com/disagree.html

Re: Silk Road 2 Hacked, All Bitcoins Stolen

#438

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's funny how me pointing out the stupidity and bullshit of a group of criminals makes me an asshole... But a guy who has actually lost people's money, put them at risk of reprisal from drug dealers, helped people (potentially young people) commit major crimes, enabled future addicts, and potentially is lying about the security flaw to steal all this money while spouting hypocritical contradictory statements...is a…

It's the condescending way you write that makes you seem like an asshole... i.e saying "Hahahahah" all the time - I don't particularly disagree with your points but the insulting tone is unnecessary, don't you think?

[deleted]

Re: Silk Road 2 Hacked, All Bitcoins Stolen

#439

Earlier quoted context omitted.

First off, only my mother gets to tell me to "watch my tone". Random jackoffs online can go fuck themselves if they think they've earned my respect by default, especially if those same jackoffs use political rhetoric to harm and steal from others. My tone is simply a reaction to the tone of arrogance and superiority most objectivists and commenters take. If you don't want to be ridiculed, then don't write like a arro…

redthrowaway's comment: > You can make the same argument without being an ass about it. Your reply: > It's funny how me pointing out the stupidity and bullshit of a group of criminals makes me an asshole... You completely missed their point, how you can't see that is beyond me.

So is it actually your point that the floor is now littered with fee-fees over the difference between "ass" and "asshole?"

Re: Silk Road 2 Hacked, All Bitcoins Stolen

#440

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There is a huge moral difference between the sort of victimless-crime-contraband that is on SR (especially since SR1 at least, not sure about SR2, actively filtered out child porn, weapons, assassinations and all of the other truly scary things that you can potentially sell on an anonymous market), and stealing millions of dollars from people at least a few of whom are dependent on substances and desperately need the…

LOL @ "victimless-crime-contraband." What a joke. Where do you think the majority of drugs come from? Some hippie's backyard? See the world's stop producers of drugs and you'll find violent, broken countries many of whom are run by drug cartels.

Take this one further, and you might ask why it's all run by cartels. We make it profitable for them with prohibition. We give them the resources to wage these wars ourselves. The only reason this violent industry exists is because the government makes it that way with unjust laws. Tax and regulate just like alcohol and it will be run by normal non-violent people. Just like liquor stores. Prohibition has never and will never work.
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