Facebook Fraud [video] • Hacker News Board

Re: Facebook Fraud [video]

#361

Post by hnnewguy » Tue, Feb 11, 2014, 5:50 PM UTC

lesterbuck wrote: post #251

commandar wrote: post #121

Earlier quoted context omitted.

From a user perspective, I like things because I want to see content. It annoys me to no end that I know I'm missing out on updates from sources I care about because Facebook selectively decides what to show me, and effectively holds my attention hostage.

Can't someone write a browser extension that tracks what you like/have liked, and then builds your own Facebook experience, putting back the content you are missing? Running the entire Facebook data system is daunting, but running my own view of Facebook that I want should be easy to manage in a browser.

>Can't someone write a browser extension that tracks what you like/have liked"

The issue is that most of don't want to click like, like, like on everything we "like", just to see that content.

I don't need to like HN; it's implicit in every visit I make to the site.

Re: Facebook Fraud [video]

#362

Post by tomp » Tue, Feb 11, 2014, 5:57 PM UTC

wutbrodo wrote: post #353

tomp wrote: post #325

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Don't listen to anyone stupid enough to tell you that there's any universal rule about jobs in ads being crappy (much less a "dead end"; Also, be aware that this can change in a few years. Some people consider working for Monsanto a "dead end", because not many other companies would want to hire a person like that afterwards.

>Some people consider working for Monsanto a "dead end", because not many other companies would want to hire a person like that afterwards. Is this even true? I know it's the kind of thing that's hard to explicitly source, but I have a hard time believing that many companies (let alone most) would blacklist someone for working for Monsanto. I feel like the actual reason to avoid Monsanto would be if it's incompatible…

I can't say from direct personal experience, but I had a friend reject a Monsanto job offer, explaining that such a first job could become a negative influence on the rest of her career. I'm not in her field, so I don't know what different kinds of employers think.

Re: Facebook Fraud [video]

#363

Post by seestheday » Tue, Feb 11, 2014, 6:06 PM UTC

JacobJans wrote: post #204

xxbondsxx wrote: post #179

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Hey everyone -- sorry to hijack the top thread but I’m an ads engineer at Facebook so I feel qualified to respond. I posted this over on reddit too but it's still pending approval. In the case of this ad — I think we actually delivered on what was asked for. The targeting specs were fairly broad (cat lovers in four countries). Getting 39 people who like cats to like a page with a cute cat picture in 20 minutes sounds…

I spent $46k on Facebook ads last year, with very healthy ROI. First, I want to say THANK YOU for the many improvements to the ad system that have recently taken place. Second, I want to say that you have a LOT of work left to do. Facebook marketing is hard. Too hard. I have many suggestions, but here's one of them: Allow the same targeting options when posting directly to the page, as when posting an ad. For example…

I do analytics for a major brand you have definitely heard of.

We spend way more than $46K/year.

I agree with Jacob here. If you are willing to work at it, facebook can give you a very healthy ROI. It is not nearly as easy as with Google though.

- Buying likes is basically a waste of time unless your goal is to stroke someones ego or are trying to generate some sort of "social proof"

- Re-targetting via Custom Audiences is awesome (you need a robust CRM program to take advantage of this, or at least an email list).

- Lookalike audiences are promising, but you have to work at them.

Edit: paragraphs

Re: Facebook Fraud [video]

#364

Post by seestheday » Tue, Feb 11, 2014, 6:13 PM UTC

shitgoose wrote: post #347

JacobJans wrote: post #204

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I spent $46k on Facebook ads last year, with very healthy ROI. First, I want to say THANK YOU for the many improvements to the ad system that have recently taken place. Second, I want to say that you have a LOT of work left to do. Facebook marketing is hard. Too hard. I have many suggestions, but here's one of them: Allow the same targeting options when posting directly to the page, as when posting an ad. For example…

I have limited experience with Facebook, but this sounds like a "fine print" to me. You assume that it is customer's responsibility to learn FB advertising model down to smallest details and navigate carefully around technicalities in order not to drain resources to click farms. While legal, such practices are dubious. It is FB responsibility to filter out garbage and provide clean service to paying customers.

I don't understand your comment. He complains that it is too hard. Isn't that also your point?

Re: Facebook Fraud [video]

#365

Post by thattallguy » Tue, Feb 11, 2014, 6:15 PM UTC

commandar wrote: post #340

thattallguy wrote: post #101

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First, you sound like a real champ, so thanks for making it hard for me to reply and support your point. But I will, Test, Test, Test and don't be a noob is the key to making any paid channel work. The deck is stacked against anyone who doesn't. The problem I see is that Facebook is banking naiveté and unsophisticated users to bolster their short term revenue. Is that right or wrong? Maybe. Will it have long ranging…

>The problem I see is that Facebook is banking naiveté and unsophisticated users to bolster their short term revenue. This, exactly. It's perfectly okay that marketing is hard and return on investment is also difficult. The problem is Facebook actively pursues unsophisticated advertisers while running a platform that's actively harmful to them. I see it analogous to SEO. Good SEO being hard is fine. There are noob mi…

Well said. I think your adwords example is spot on.

Re: Facebook Fraud [video]

#366

Post by prostoalex » Tue, Feb 11, 2014, 6:43 PM UTC

seren wrote: post #297

prostoalex wrote: post #183

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> I have two questions to respond to this - how did people do all of these things before the facebook platform? What is stopping you from doing these same things? Some of "these things" did not exist before. Like yesterday a former coworker of mine posted a bunch of pictures of her kids growing up, it was interesting and reminded me how the time flies. Would I ask around acquaintances for her phone number, then get o…

This is a bit disingenuous to say these kind of reflection were not possible before. What happened in the old days was that your social life was much more localized : your street, your neighborhood, your village, your parish, etc. So rather that looking at pictures, you would be on your porch and you would be looking at your friend's kids playing in the street , wondering how all these years had gone so fast. Social…

Yeah, communication and conversation was very location-dependent.

Re: Facebook Fraud [video]

#367

Post by hippich » Tue, Feb 11, 2014, 6:44 PM UTC

project i wanted to start http://PaidSo.com - basically a marketplace where you will get paid for posting stuff about local businesses. Seeing post from friends about restaurant opened in their area should give more significant bang for a buck then trying to sell something online to people reacting negatively to any online advertisement.

Re: Facebook Fraud [video]

#368

Post by unclebucknasty » Tue, Feb 11, 2014, 6:52 PM UTC

blumkvist wrote: post #352

unclebucknasty wrote: post #345

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I have a newsflash for you - marketing is hard and you are not entitled to results, just because you throw $50 on facebook ads. Interesting that you know how much time and money I've put into it. It's also, interesting that you know what other means of advertising I've employed and am using for COMPARATIVE purposes. Marketing is hard? No kidding. I have been marketing online for over 10 years and have driven well o…

>So, you say you went off and built a slide-rule, strapped on a rocket pack, and obtained a PhD in psychology and statistics, and an MBA in marketing. Now, Facebook Ads work for you. Great! So I guess it was me and the other 90-something% of Facebook's ad customers who were wrong after all. We should just do what you did. No, I'm saying that you marketing is a field like every other and should be treated like it. It'…

>No, I'm saying that marketing is a field like every other and should be treated like it

We're not talking about the field of marketing. We're talking about a specific product. One of many available products that consistently underperforms for a lot of people (including those with experience in the field of marketing).

>it's like me saying "Oh, C++ is so stupid, I can't do "X" with it, although this book says it's comprehensive. Btw, I'm a mommy blogger"

No. It's not. It's like me saying "I have many years of successful marketing experience, using many tools, channels, and approaches. I have found fundamental flaws with this particular product. Many others seem to be reporting the same."

Which is, of course, exactly what I did say. But, you seem to be pretty determined to stick with your worldview.

>I will give you the benefit of the doubt on your accomplishments

My $500M+ in sales and I thank you.

>There are 2 groups of people who whine about facebook ads...

So, you don't even allow for the fact that perhaps something could possibly be wrong with the product, or even that FB ads may simply not be the right channel for every product/business. I understand that you feel very strongly about FB ads (or more accurately that you have disdain for those who don't love them as you do). But, you have to realize that when you make categorical statements like that, it's hard to take you seriously.

Re: Facebook Fraud [video]

#369

Post by baby » Tue, Feb 11, 2014, 6:59 PM UTC

lmm wrote: post #334

baby wrote: post #306

Earlier quoted context omitted.

if you want to share your secrets I'm all ears. For example, last year I got to meet maybe 30 friends from all over the world because they were passing through France or wanted to go travel to the country I was traveling to. I wouldn't have met them if they didn't have my facebook as I rarely keep touch with people far from me (before facebook). My mail is filled with spam and I change my number every year. I also mo…

You change your number every year? Why? If it's a privacy issue surely it's more important to change your facebook account every year.

I move a lot, China, Canada, France these last years. I don't want to keep paying to keep my number, and I don't really care about changing my number, if people want to contact me they can always find me on facebook (I have everyone there), and the few that don't use a facebook, well I don't really keep in touch with them but I don't have time to track everybody.

Re: Facebook Fraud [video]

#370

Post by cinquemb » Tue, Feb 11, 2014, 7:14 PM UTC

brandnewlow wrote: post #271

quacker wrote: post #256

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Something doesn't make sense here... I gathered from other threads that Google's ads are preferred over facebook's. So either Google doesn't do "contextual/interest based" ads, or contextual/interest based ads do not perform terribly (compared to what facebook is currently doing).

Google's search ads perform very well. They capture people in the moment of intent. Google's 3rd party ads perform badly since they are abstracted much further away from live intent, but Google gets away with it because they are pay per click, which implies lower risk for advertisers.

I don't disagree, but with that logic, maybe facebook could get away with it too. And I didn't suggest it as an either/or thing, just maybe something to reduce the pressure on the current revenue streams. For certain types of sites/products, facebook could give google a run for their money with a competing product.