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Revolution in Kiev

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Re: Revolution in Kiev

#81

Post by gladimdim »

Mikeb85 wrote: post #64

The reality distortion field the protesters have formed is impressive. They've completely overshadowed a few key points: - The Yanukovych government offered a power-sharing agreement with the opposition, offering Yatsenyuk the PM position and Klitschko the deputy PM job, which the opposition rejected: http://www.cbc.ca/news/world/ukraine-oppositions-rejects-vik... - The fascist element - one of the opposition leaders…

Protesters want Yanukovych to go away. They do not want to stay him as president. Power-sharing agreement is a bluff. I do not understand your connection of neo-nazi symbols with Oleh Tyahnybok and Svoboda party. If someone wears something why do you apply it to this party? Also UPA never collaborated with Nazis. They fought against communists and nazis at the same time: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ukrainian_Insurgent_Army. They fought will middle 50s.

Re: Revolution in Kiev

#82

Post by cdash »

Mikeb85 wrote: post #73
cdash wrote: post #72

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So the protesters have been more violent? Then why are there more of them dead than there are police and why are there more of them injured than police?

If you followed the news and read both sides, you'd see that there are dead policemen, and hundreds that are injured. http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/europe/ukraine-prote... http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lLuvsXLQHBM

Im not sure what your video is supposed to show. It is not like the police haven't done the exact same thing to protesters and the protestors are not as well geared as the police forces.

There has been a single policeman killed that is unknown whether it has any connection to the protests as he was off duty and not in the area of the protests. There have been 6-9 protestors killed and thousands more injured. So again which side is more violent?

Re: Revolution in Kiev

#83

Post by altero »

cdash wrote: post #72
Mikeb85 wrote: post #64

The reality distortion field the protesters have formed is impressive. They've completely overshadowed a few key points: - The Yanukovych government offered a power-sharing agreement with the opposition, offering Yatsenyuk the PM position and Klitschko the deputy PM job, which the opposition rejected: http://www.cbc.ca/news/world/ukraine-oppositions-rejects-vik... - The fascist element - one of the opposition leaders…

So the protesters have been more violent? Then why are there more of them dead than there are police and why are there more of them injured than police?

Perhaps they need more skills at throwing molotov coctails?

Re: Revolution in Kiev

#85

Post by Mikeb85 »

gladimdim wrote: post #81
Mikeb85 wrote: post #64

The reality distortion field the protesters have formed is impressive. They've completely overshadowed a few key points: - The Yanukovych government offered a power-sharing agreement with the opposition, offering Yatsenyuk the PM position and Klitschko the deputy PM job, which the opposition rejected: http://www.cbc.ca/news/world/ukraine-oppositions-rejects-vik... - The fascist element - one of the opposition leaders…

Protesters want Yanukovych to go away. They do not want to stay him as president. Power-sharing agreement is a bluff. I do not understand your connection of neo-nazi symbols with Oleh Tyahnybok and Svoboda party. If someone wears something why do you apply it to this party? Also UPA never collaborated with Nazis. They fought against communists and nazis at the same time: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ukrainian_Insurge…

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eTjezCzo-BQ

http://www.ibtimes.com/svoboda-rising-spectre-neo-nazism-ukr...

These are the words of Oleh Tyahnybok: "They did not fear, but took up their automatic rifles, going into the woods to fight Muscovites, Germans, Jewry and other filth which wanted to take away our Ukrainian nationhood. It’s time to give Ukraine to the Ukrainians. Like them, you are most feared by the Moscow-Jewish mafia which today runs Ukraine"

http://gwplondon.files.wordpress.com/2013/04/oleg-tyanhybok....

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Svoboda_(political_party)

Re: Revolution in Kiev

#86

Post by memracom »

memracom wrote: post #69

Just remember that everything you read/see about Ukraine is propaganda published by someone who is trying to get you to agree with their point of view. They are careful to select their photos to not show the things that they don't want you to know about. For instance, these photos careful do not show the neo-nazi far right groups, the people with handguns, or the police being hit by flaming molotov cocktails or wound…

Yes, I feel rather superior being a dual citizen of a NAFTA country which gets along with its neighbors, and an EU country which also gets along with its neighbors. I simply do not agree with any political movement that is based on demonizing a group of citizens of your own country or based on demonizing a country which is a neighbor. Given that Ukrainians seem to be doing both, I am quite smug and patronising about that fact. In the end they have to stop shouting, and vilifying. They have to start talking and be willing to find compromises. That's the only way that will work in the 21st century.

Re: Revolution in Kiev

#87

Post by Crito »

Mikeb85 wrote: post #64

The reality distortion field the protesters have formed is impressive. They've completely overshadowed a few key points: - The Yanukovych government offered a power-sharing agreement with the opposition, offering Yatsenyuk the PM position and Klitschko the deputy PM job, which the opposition rejected: http://www.cbc.ca/news/world/ukraine-oppositions-rejects-vik... - The fascist element - one of the opposition leaders…

Power-sharing is a sham. It would demoralize and disband protests while allowing the government to shift blame for the governments actions onto the protesters (who would then nominally be responsible for the governments actions), and give the protesters no real meaningful power. The governments proposal is intended to do nothing more than to have protesters abandon their position and allow the government to use the protesters as scapegoats. The concerns of the protesters would not be addressed.

Re: Revolution in Kiev

#88

Post by huhtenberg »

Mikeb85 wrote: post #64

The reality distortion field the protesters have formed is impressive. They've completely overshadowed a few key points: - The Yanukovych government offered a power-sharing agreement with the opposition, offering Yatsenyuk the PM position and Klitschko the deputy PM job, which the opposition rejected: http://www.cbc.ca/news/world/ukraine-oppositions-rejects-vik... - The fascist element - one of the opposition leaders…

> And finally, Yanukovych was not only democratically elected

You may want to fact-check that. Accounts on the matter, as they say, differ wildly.

Re: Revolution in Kiev

#89

Post by Shivetya »

cdash wrote: post #72
Mikeb85 wrote: post #64

The reality distortion field the protesters have formed is impressive. They've completely overshadowed a few key points: - The Yanukovych government offered a power-sharing agreement with the opposition, offering Yatsenyuk the PM position and Klitschko the deputy PM job, which the opposition rejected: http://www.cbc.ca/news/world/ukraine-oppositions-rejects-vik... - The fascist element - one of the opposition leaders…

So the protesters have been more violent? Then why are there more of them dead than there are police and why are there more of them injured than police?

Lets be honest, if your stupid enough to throw rocks at armed policemen and military, let alone malatov's your asking for it. The issue I am curious about verifying is supposed disappearances from hospitals.

Violent resistance will get that in return, to claim moral superiority for one side over another is reaching.

Re: Revolution in Kiev

#90

Post by IgorPartola »

Mikeb85 wrote: post #64

The reality distortion field the protesters have formed is impressive. They've completely overshadowed a few key points: - The Yanukovych government offered a power-sharing agreement with the opposition, offering Yatsenyuk the PM position and Klitschko the deputy PM job, which the opposition rejected: http://www.cbc.ca/news/world/ukraine-oppositions-rejects-vik... - The fascist element - one of the opposition leaders…

Yanukovych is a criminal who should never have even bee eligible to run: http://www.kyivpost.com/content/ukraine/from-prison-to-presi...

He rigged an election before and got caught. He is a convicted felon and a puppet controlled by Russia. There is no reality distortion field here: he is bad for Ukraine.

Remember, Ukraine does not have a separate judicial system to undo unjust laws. Therefore the people have a responsibility to directly protest these unjust laws (such as the law disallowing protests).

I am not defending violence, but saying that Yanukovych is somehow doing anything on the up and up is false, end of story.

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