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4K is for programmers

tiamat.tsotech.com

321–330 of 342 posts

Re: 4K is for programmers

#321
post #11
post #4

Does anyone know if the 15" 2012 MBPR (that is, MacBookPro10,1) supports 4K with its HDMI output under Mavericks? Of course, it will only be 30Hz, but that's tolerable.

I've read officially no, but Apple frequently gives "official" specs that claim a feature isn't supported when really it is. For example, every macbook pro in the last 5 or 6 years that had replaceable RAM had an actual RAM limit that was double what Apple said was its RAM limit. I wouldn't be surprised if 4K works, albeit perhaps a little sluggishly.

Really? Are you saying my 2012 Mackbook Pro could use 16 GB? Do you have any source for that?

Re: 4K is for programmers

#322
post #255
post #130

> At our office, we just equipped all of the programmers' workstations with Seiki 39" 4K televisions as monitors. [...] For the time being, there is no single higher-productivity display for a programmer. Maybe it's just me, but I'm most productive on a 13" laptop. I can change my work place and position as I want, plus only one app fitting on the screen actually helps me focus. Emacs/tmux/IDE users can do most progr…

I'm currently doing my hobby programming projects on a 10 inch screen (asus t100), and have set up my flow so that i don't need a bigger screen. I used to have a three monitor setup, but at some point realized that all that real estate was preventing me to focus. Now i only want one window on screen at a time. Alt+tab is my extra screen real estate. My usual screen is 22 inches and that's about the maximum size for p…

This is the first I've heard of another programmer using the T100. Are you using it as a terminal to a more powerful computer, or as the actual computer? If the latter, what does your dev environment consist of, and what platform(s) are you programming for?

Re: 4K is for programmers

#323
post #141

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You should try a tiling WM in which you can switch between windows based on their location. eg, alt+{left,down,up,right}

Any recommendations? I dived into xmonad some time ago but I never found a good and fast windows manager for OS X.

I like SizeUp a lot: http://www.irradiatedsoftware.com/sizeup/

Re: 4K is for programmers

#324

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I agree the colors are a mess..... until you spend an hour or so calibrating. I did over the last two days since I bought one, and it has the same look, color wise, as my rMBP now (I own the 39" Seiki)

I tried calibrated it with both X-Rite and Spyder (both physical calibration devices) -- neither could get it anywhere near "average". It just swings all over the place. Also, calibration can't fix horrible blacks, uneven brightness and the finish. What equipment did you use? Can you post your pre/post scores? I have NEVER met anyone who has been able to actually calibrate it into even "average" ranges. I realize tha…

The fact that you have access to two physical calibration devices makes me discount your opinion massively, FWIW. It means you're not really in the market for a programming monitor, but for design or some other thing where color is important.

I don't care for calibration at all, really. What I do care about is that all my monitors, when I have multiple monitors, have similar performance across the gamut. To the point that I lived with what in retrospect was an extremely out of whack 2407WFP for 6 years to match a cheap Acer until the Acer died. I only noticed how bad it was when the U2813HM that replaced the Acer was sitting alongside. Resetting to factory defaults pretty much fixed that.

Re: 4K is for programmers

#325
post #287

Earlier quoted context omitted.

First of all, you can get the U3014 for around $1100, less on sale. http://www.amazon.com/gp/offer-listing/B00C2RPW8O/ref=dp_olp... ... additionally, it is a "professional" monitor (X-Rite tie in, factory calibrated, etc) and will likely maintain a premium price as corporations are the target customers. Secondly, the Seiki is not a "good" monitor. It isn't even a "good" TV. The only thing Seiki has is pixel density a…

> Secondly, the Seiki is not a "good" monitor. It isn't even a "good" TV. The only thing Seiki has is pixel density and cheapness, it is awful in every other measurable way, without a doubt one of the worst panels I have ever purchased. I can't fathom how you can justify calling it "good". Excluding resolution -- can you even name a single thing you like about it, that you think is a cut above? Do you have an ax to g…

The man used two physical calibration devices on the monitor. I think that means he values color reproduction much higher than the average buyer.

Re: 4K is for programmers

#326
post #172

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That wasn't the best thought out example. The total yearly cost for a programmer would have to exceed 666.666 $ to justify a 1000 $ purchase, if the improvement is only 0.05%. That said, I agree. The benefit doesn't have to be big to justify it.

Ops. Yea 1/2 not 1/20th of 1%. The .0005 number is correct, but I messed up changing that to a fraction of a %.

1/2 of 1% is 0.005

Re: 4K is for programmers

#327
Honestly, I've long used a pair of 1080P 37" TV as my preferred monitors. One landscape, one vertical. I place them far away so my eyes don't have to work as hard to focus. Fonts are big for the same reason. I don't need 4k whatsoever. It would just make things too tiny to read with the current poor support OSes have for dpi independent rendering.

Re: 4K is for programmers

#328
post #296
post #286

Earlier quoted context omitted.

At $500, there are FAR better monitors. You keep repeating this as if it is some magic mantra. You have not defined any what "better" really means in manner that can be quantified and compared without introducing subjective opinions of a user. Also, care to link to these "better" monitors, including sellers that sell these for the $500 price, as well as non-subjective reviews?

Better monitors very easily be objectively conceived. Latency, refresh rate, contrast ratio, brightness, input options, are all easily measured. "Better" monitors are easily found through a simple search, and how do you exactly determine a review to be "non-subjective"? http://www.displaylag.com/display-database/ http://thewirecutter.com/leaderboard/tvs/ http://thewirecutter.com/reviews/a-great-27-inch-lcd-monitor...

What latency is better than what brightness?

Re: 4K is for programmers

#329

Earlier quoted context omitted.

To your repeated point: It's been my experience that better knowing what the code is doing leads to improving it. I am not a smart or clever person. I can only see one focal point at a time. But with enough time (and a trivial screen resolution) I feel that I can understand and improve on something as complex as the operating system running my computer, which is some very big software with parts of it (big and small)…

> To your repeated point: It's been my experience that better knowing what the code is doing leads to improving it. I am not a smart or clever person. Here is the example I am dealing with right now. I have spent the last few months designing and implementing a complex system. It consists of hundreds of components and tens of thousands of lines of code. This project is reasonably small and I can keep most of the ment…

My operating system is a huge and complex beast. But a lot it, if not most of, is modularized in a way that extending it never requires my touching any of its source files. It assumes a mission statement to the user (I'll make one up and say it's "I will organize your computer's resources and let you use them easily") and code contracts that allow multiple components to serve this goal. Internally, the components are abstracted into statements of a very simple logic-flow.

This paradigm persists in many components themselves, from the bootloader to the end-user. When I want to update something in user space, it involves, from my perspective, no interaction with the operating system (even though it is really the one doing everything). Conversely if I want to do something as advanced as completely rewrite my filesystem implementation (something my operating system is very dependent on), I can, and without ever needing to touch my operating system's source. I could come up with any ridiculous way for a filesystem to work, and my operating system would be cool with it, and would operate the same way because if its modularized and abstracted design.

I would say these are incredibly good design features and that you would have to be extremely hard pressed to find a system that inherently cannot be designed in such a way as to mitigate maintainability and trivialize extensibility. Is your top-level project inherently so complex that adding smaller pieces requires that much screen real estate? If so, you have my sympathies.

> I had meant to ask if you analyse your profiling data on the command line. Do you?

Yes, my command-line editor has some powerful cvs support and manipulation features that make slicing the data up very easy.

Re: 4K is for programmers

#330
post #247

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Admittedly 30 Hz sucks and the colors are not up to par with an IPS panel, but overall the Seiki offer a great deal for the price. The brightness is great (only terrible if you like it really low ), the 112 pixel density is higher than on 2x23 inch monitors, for example; The colors can be calibrated from within the OS so it's not as much of an issue; And as the black levels - if you found them horrible, it may be bec…

30 Hz is awful. The brightness problem is blow out and bleed. It is "very bright" it is so bright that when doing any sort of calibration the whites bleed on everything. The contrast ratio is good due to the excessive brightness, which means the blacks still suck. Horrible highlights and horrible shadows. The calibration you can do in the OS is limited, as I said, I have two different sets of hardware equipment for c…

> I doubt any radical changes have taken place since then, I have read of none outside of the price dropping.

Didn't the article mention something about a firmware patch to fix the backlight brightness?

(I appreciate your calibrated review/opinions btw)

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