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4K is for programmers

tiamat.tsotech.com

181–190 of 342 posts

Re: 4K is for programmers

#181
post #11
post #4

Does anyone know if the 15" 2012 MBPR (that is, MacBookPro10,1) supports 4K with its HDMI output under Mavericks? Of course, it will only be 30Hz, but that's tolerable.

I've read officially no, but Apple frequently gives "official" specs that claim a feature isn't supported when really it is. For example, every macbook pro in the last 5 or 6 years that had replaceable RAM had an actual RAM limit that was double what Apple said was its RAM limit. I wouldn't be surprised if 4K works, albeit perhaps a little sluggishly.

Why would Apple do this? What possible reason could they have for selling their own product short?

Re: 4K is for programmers

#182
I'd love to have a good 39" 4K monitor, but I really don't want any other developer in my office to have one. For some reason, everyone else feels that they should use the entire screen width for code.

So we end up with 200 character long lines on our 24" monitors. Can't imagine the horror they'd produce with 39" monitors.

Re: 4K is for programmers

#183
post #161
post #82

The article lists the "ideal size" for monitors at 50 inches, and the one for TVs at 100+ inches! While I'm sure it's great to have such massive screen real estate (I wanna get a 4K in 2014 too), I can't but help think this is the programmer equivalent of consumers buying needlessly large TVs. I work on a 24" desktop monitor and a 14" laptop one. How is 50" the "ideal size"? Even 39"? At what point does the law of di…

I use 6 19" monitors (using a combination of display port, HDMI, display link adapters). It's a bit of a mess to set up, but I like the actual physical splitting of the monitors (I have the logfile monitor, the google chrome monitor, the firefox monitor, the jira monitor, the editor monitor, etc...). Also, it plays in very well with a tiling window manager where I can just switch windows from one monitor to the next…

Think I understand where you're coming from, but for me virtual desktops give the same separation.

Do you use virtual desktops as well?

Re: 4K is for programmers

#184
post #179

> Today, you can still buy a 30-inch 2560x1600 display for over $1,000. Or you can get a 39-inch 3840x2160 display for $500. This choice is not even fair. Yes, you can buy a wonderful, physically adjustable, mountable, color calibrated, blissful contrast, delightful brightness control monitor with a great matte finish like the Dell 3014... or you can buy an absolutely awful 30hz, locked in place, blue tinted, horribl…

Sad to say, for many programmers and other people who aren't AV types, the step up in resolution— plus the saving of over $500—is likely worth the dodgy colour and brightness. Many won't even really notice the badness. That said, some of the $600-ish mystery-meat 2560×1600 displays apparently have good display quality and so may be a stronger alternative to the Seiki.

At $500, there are FAR better monitors. Bad contrast, bad brightness, bad everything. If you buy your programmers this, buy them a years supply of pills to deal with the headaches it will induce.

Again, this isn't like a "bad for picky art professionals" type of bad. Just awful, I wouldn't even sell it to anyone I knew personally because I knew it would come back to bite me.

Re: 4K is for programmers

#185
post #161
post #82

The article lists the "ideal size" for monitors at 50 inches, and the one for TVs at 100+ inches! While I'm sure it's great to have such massive screen real estate (I wanna get a 4K in 2014 too), I can't but help think this is the programmer equivalent of consumers buying needlessly large TVs. I work on a 24" desktop monitor and a 14" laptop one. How is 50" the "ideal size"? Even 39"? At what point does the law of di…

I use 6 19" monitors (using a combination of display port, HDMI, display link adapters). It's a bit of a mess to set up, but I like the actual physical splitting of the monitors (I have the logfile monitor, the google chrome monitor, the firefox monitor, the jira monitor, the editor monitor, etc...). Also, it plays in very well with a tiling window manager where I can just switch windows from one monitor to the next…

Having had a six-display setup for about 5 years, I agree. The Mac Pro made it quite easy to set up, too. Having separate (preferrably HD) panels, each dedicated to one window, feels excellent.

For about half a year now, I've been using a 3-display setup centered around a large iMac. While the iMac display is nice, I kind of miss my old work flow. The iMac resolution is quite awkward, actually, because it's too small to split in two or four separate work areas, but at the same time it's way too big for just one window. There is really no good way to use that screen efficiently. So I often end up splitting it into two overlapping halves with a code window and some other window, but on the whole the setup is not as satisfying as the 6-screen.

Re: 4K is for programmers

#186

alt+tabbing? wut? Synergy + 17" Laptop as server + Desktop with 2x 24" screens on desk arms... Some one explain why a single large screen is better for a programmer, when synergy is dead easy to setup.

Some people loath the seperation between screens (I am one of these people) -- So I have a single nice 30".

Re: 4K is for programmers

#187

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Although I don't have any problem stitching side-by-side commits in a terminal, or keeping multiple text buffers akimbo in general (its what the terminal is ideal for), I can't argue with most of your points because you're probably 100% correct in the context of your environment and it's limited modes of input (mouse-centric). And you have my sympathies. Being forced to use the mouse is a drag, and I would argue, a c…

As I said, it has more to do with your working memory than with speed or ease of navigation. If you are viewing more code at once (which a larger screen allows you to do) then you can be more productive at certain tasks. I find that large architectural changes, performance profiling, and complex debugging are particular scenarios that lend themselves well to a large screen. This is the point I was making to which you…

To your repeated point: It's been my experience that better knowing what the code is doing leads to improving it. I am not a smart or clever person. I can only see one focal point at a time. But with enough time (and a trivial screen resolution) I feel that I can understand and improve on something as complex as the operating system running my computer, which is some very big software with parts of it (big and small) written in the early 80's on 80 character wide screens. This probably applies to everyone's operating system, so I'm just using it to juxtapose my next subject, which is the nightmare project (and I'm not making any of it up).

Looking back on the nightmare project almost makes me cry until I manage to suppress its memory. The difference between this project and my operating system is that my operating system is written by people who need to maintain software for a long time and, at some random point in the future, will need to rely on the maintainability of the code they wrote a lifetime ago. My nightmare project was not written with the project in mind, let alone the future of the project. Its problems were far removed from screen resolution. Its problem was the programmer. The programmer made it as painful as possible for me to understand what ze had written.

There was no abstraction and the code's entry point invoked every procedure the project directly in various loops. There was no difference represented between the software's big wheels and tiny gears. This made large scale changes difficult because dependent code had no typed contract, just access to buffers and primitives passed around in what was essentially a big main().

There was no cohesion of modules in the project and procedures just appeared together grouped seemingly at random and given names project1.x, project2.x, etc. Even if I had enough screen real estate to have the whole project's source open simultaneously, I would have been just as lost as when I was trying to wrap my head around a single file.

There was never a consideration for inversion of control and all the flow parameters were hard coded paths in giant conditional nests all throughout the project. That made simply guessing which code paths to analyze for a given input difficult.

Seeing more bad code doesn't make fixing it any easier and seeing more good code doesn't help me understand it any faster. When it comes to code, there are many factors influencing how productive I will be at working on it and screen resolution should be down there on the list, hopefully near the bottom.

"You may not realise this, but"

Was that necessary?

"committing those shortcuts to muscle memory makes using graphical applications just as fast, if not faster, than many tasks on the command line."

What's even better about the command line is that you can pipe input and output between applications. Chaining commands and remaining on the cli is faster for me than switching between applications and opening files. Most UIs have no way to define macros for commonly used procedures, whereas you can script anything cli-based.

"Do you also do all your performance profiling on the command line? Because that is a situation where visual data is very helpful, and a visual interface is in general more efficient and faster to navigate than the same on a command line."

I do. I lack the sensory to monitor more than a couple metrics at once. I prefer profiling data that can be captured and analyzed later.

Re: 4K is for programmers

#188
Heh. Lots of articles about "technology sucks" on a page which has broken middle click so I can't open new tabs, can't right-click to copy a link URL (in the 'more' section), breaks the back button if the AJAX request completes after you press back again...

Re: 4K is for programmers

#189
post #130

> At our office, we just equipped all of the programmers' workstations with Seiki 39" 4K televisions as monitors. [...] For the time being, there is no single higher-productivity display for a programmer. Maybe it's just me, but I'm most productive on a 13" laptop. I can change my work place and position as I want, plus only one app fitting on the screen actually helps me focus. Emacs/tmux/IDE users can do most progr…

It's not just you. While reading the article I was thinking "wow, these guys are using 39" monitors, while I'm perfectly happy with a single 17" monitor or a 13" laptop. There must be something wrong with me." Emacs is my screen space saviour. Every file or shell is 3 key presses away, I just don't need extra monitors.

I use multiple monitors for having my editor on one screen and having on the other screen:

1. My database design for reference

2. A web browser for when I google how to do a particular thing

3. Specifications for the project I'm working on

4. Example code from other things I have written in the past

These things make me a more productive programmer. I don't see a legitimate reason as to why multiple monitors wouldn't make someone more productive but let me know what I'm missing!

Re: 4K is for programmers

#190
post #59
post #47

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That would be a deal breaker, but lenovo and asus make nearly identical IPS displays.

AFAIK all 28'' 4k screens are TN, that's why they are so cheap. If you want IPS, it's $1300 for 24 (dell), or $3500 (dell, asus).

Lenovo ThinkVision Pro2840m looks like IPS, there are even videos which shows good angles.

Personally I only care about viewing angles, so cheaper technology such as e-IPS would be just fine.

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