Live data from Hacker News

'If I Need ID to Buy Cough Syrup, Why Shouldn't I Need ID to Vote?'

theatlantic.com

101–110 of 118 posts

Re: 'If I Need ID to Buy Cough Syrup, Why Shouldn't I Need ID to Vote?'

#101

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There already is a certain set of barriers to voting, so let's not pretend there isn't. Everyone is free to vote as long as they can handle the barriers. The argument now is how much is too much. Some seem to think proper ID is too much. Others think that is perfectly reasonable. And currently, some form of ID is needed. So the debate goes further as to what is "proper" ID. Is it a state issued ID card? Or is it your…

And currently, some form of ID is needed. That's just not true. I vote without showing any ID at all.

Are you saying that during the entire time from registering to vote to the point of voting, you never had to identify yourself? I find that odd. How do they even know who you are?

Re: 'If I Need ID to Buy Cough Syrup, Why Shouldn't I Need ID to Vote?'

#102

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why do we keep excusing people from having a basic mechanism to prove who they say they are? Given that bored teenagers in search of beer can easily forge IDs, what makes you think current photo ID cards are an effective certificate for proving identity? If you cannot handle getting and maintaining an ID maybe one ought not be able to vote because you're just not responsible enough to handle it. See, this notion righ…

I don't think photo ID's are an effective certificate for proving identity. I'd like to see something stronger put into place. I would agree 100% positive identification is likely impossible given current technology but I think we can do a lot better than photo ID. Felon's are restricted from voting and the constitutionality of it has been upheld. We can absolutely restrict who votes. I strongly disagree that such an…

I don't think photo ID's are an effective certificate for proving identity.

So why are we even talking about them? Photo IDs are the solution being discussed here, not some theoretical has-yet-to-be-invented technology that is indistinguishable from magic. You wrote why do we keep excusing people from having a basic mechanism to prove who they say they are? in the context of a mechanism that doesn't do that...so what exactly is the point of introducing a very costly "solution" to a non-existent problem that doesn't actually solve anything?

Re: 'If I Need ID to Buy Cough Syrup, Why Shouldn't I Need ID to Vote?'

#103

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And currently, some form of ID is needed. That's just not true. I vote without showing any ID at all.

Are you saying that during the entire time from registering to vote to the point of voting, you never had to identify yourself? I find that odd. How do they even know who you are?

I think you should do some research on voting in the US. You can start by looking at web pages like this: http://www.sec.state.ma.us/ele/eleifv/howreg.htm

Re: 'If I Need ID to Buy Cough Syrup, Why Shouldn't I Need ID to Vote?'

#104

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Are you saying that during the entire time from registering to vote to the point of voting, you never had to identify yourself? I find that odd. How do they even know who you are?

I think you should do some research on voting in the US. You can start by looking at web pages like this: http://www.sec.state.ma.us/ele/eleifv/howreg.htm

Thanks. I clicked on that. And then the "Massachusetts Mail-in Voter Registration form (PDF) – English" link. In the instructions for that PDF form, #7 says: Federal law requires that you provide your driver’s license number to register to vote. If you do not have a current and valid Massachusetts driver's license, you must provide the last four digits of your social security number. If you have neither, you must write “none” in the box. I'm not sure what they do with the mail in forms that mark "none".

And then I read the questions on that the page you linked to. I found this one interesting: Do I need to attach identification to my voter registration form? The Answer: Yes, if you are registering to vote for the first time in Massachusetts. Because of a federal law, the Help America Vote Act of 2002 passed by Congress, if you registered to vote by mail on or after January 1, 2003, you will be required to show identification when you vote for the first time in a federal election since registering by mail in 2003, or you can send in a copy of your identification with your voter registration form.

Acceptable identification must include your name and the address at which you are registered to vote, for example: a current and valid driver’s license, photo identification, current utility bill, bank statement, paycheck, government check, or other government document showing your name and address.

Am I reading this wrong? Because it pretty much sounds like to me that ID is required. Was there some other info I was supposed to find?

Edit: I found this Federal Voter Registration form interesting: http://www.eac.gov/assets/1/Documents/Federal%20Voter%20Regi... If you scroll down beyond the form, it gives a breakdown for each state what is required for Box #6 (which is where the form asks for your ID Number). Seems a lot are asking for ID of some sort. Good info. Thanks for suggesting I do more research.

Re: 'If I Need ID to Buy Cough Syrup, Why Shouldn't I Need ID to Vote?'

#105
post #54

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Don't they already have IDs? No. For most people in the US if you don't have a car you don't have a govt ID. http://www.npr.org/2012/01/28/146006217/why-new-photo-id-law... those least likely to have a government-issued photo ID fall into one of four categories: the elderly, minorities, the poor and young adults aged 18 to 24. The Brennan Center estimates that 18 percent of all seniors and 25 percent of African-Ameri…

"Don't have one" and "can't get one" are two entirely different things. How many of them don't have one simply because they have not needed one before and will just go get one (like most people) now that they'll have a need for one? As a fairly poor college student without a car in a new state (Arizona), I managed to locate a bus schedule and a DMV and make my way to the DMV and get a state ID. And I did it without i…

Yes, nearly everyone can get one if sufficiently motivated.

I think the issue is that people seem to be pushing for this sort of thing to place obstacles in the path of specific types of voters because they don't like how they vote. No one has identified a problem with how current voter registration and voting works that the govt ID requirement solves, as far as I am aware.

Re: 'If I Need ID to Buy Cough Syrup, Why Shouldn't I Need ID to Vote?'

#106

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not being required to have an ID card is something we Americans find to be an important freedom. Many (myself included) feel that requiring people to have an ID card is a slippery slope towards requiring people to show that ID card on demand. The idea of an authority figure being able to 'ask for your papers' is a scary one for us. As the article said, voter fraud is NOT really a problem. No one has ever been able to…

I consider the claims of fraud on George W. Bush's elections made by Michael Moore to be pretty sufficient...

IIRC his claims were not about individuals committing voter fraud, but fraud in the procedure of processing the votes. Which voter ID laws do nothing to help with.

Re: 'If I Need ID to Buy Cough Syrup, Why Shouldn't I Need ID to Vote?'

#107

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Indeed. My father in law was denied an ID when he moved to a different state. He is a US citizen of Pakistani origin, and the DMV staff refused to issue him a drivers' license because they were convinced that the was not a US citizen. He showed them his US passport. They claimed it was fake. He showed them his drivers license from his home state. They rejected it. He showed them his veterans card identifying him as a…

It sounds like the DMV staff you encountered were bigots. I would report them. Get the local media involved. Offer to wait while they call the police since having a fake passport is a crime.

  It sounds like the DMV staff you encountered were bigots.
Not just bigots; they failed their jobs. Could be a serious legal case. (If true.)

Re: 'If I Need ID to Buy Cough Syrup, Why Shouldn't I Need ID to Vote?'

#109
post #86

Earlier quoted context omitted.

But that whole argument depends on the status quo in the US: many poor don't have ID cards already. If you shift your view to the situation in other countries, it's easily answered: (almost) everyone has an ID card, so it cannot be used to disenfranchise minorities. Issue ID cards to everyone and your problem should go away.

That's not going to happen, and many of the people who will make sure it doesn't happen are the same people who want voter ID laws in order to disenfranchise their political opponents. You're not just looking for a change in the status quo, you're looking for a fundamental realignment of American politics. Good luck with that.

No, I'm pretty certain I won't see such a change, and since I'm not American, nor do I live in America, my interest in that is very limited.

Re: 'If I Need ID to Buy Cough Syrup, Why Shouldn't I Need ID to Vote?'

#110

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Every place I've been to vote, the election workers had a printed list of people who could vote and would highlight their names once they voted. It's in plain view and it would be easy to read the names and find one to use while waiting in line to get your ballet.

Sure, you could maybe read a name...and then you have to show up later in front of the same election worker who checked you in earlier. Don't you think they'd recognize you? When I vote, I have to make eye contact and speak with four different poll workers. The odds that I could vote several times without any of them noticing are very low. The odds that a bunch of people could each vote many times over without any of…

You read the name and vote with that name, not your own... Go to next polling station and repeat with a different name.
Post reply on HN