111–115 of 115 posts
Earlier quoted context omitted.
"In a civilized society one should be able to afford his own place, provide for his daughter, give her rides as needed without sacrificing job security, etc" - should society provide a place for a person in a location of its choosing?
Should the door in the location of your choosing have a guard? Two questions, same answer.
This is explored to a degree in a pop psychology book by Daniel Gilbert called "Stumbling on Happiness". There are certainly better sources, such as the papers Gilbert uses as his primary sources, but the book is an accessible way to learn about the high degree to which our happiness depends on subjective interpretation of our self-comparison to others. There's a theory out there that we evaluate ourselves mostly aga…
That was your takeaway from the article? Really?
I did not think my takeaway from this article added to the conversation. Since I've been prompted for it, all I can say about the situation is that I'm appalled by income inequality and an apparent lack of empathy, but I don't know enough about the subjects of this article, or the people examining the article's subjects, to pass judgement. I can only empathize.
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You want me to find citations for other peoples claims about hard work as a reason why some people make it and other don't? You don't have to believe me, but just because you haven't heard that I am not going to spend time finding citation. But a quick look around this thread should point you in the right direction.
>You want me to find citations for other peoples claims about hard work as a reason why some people make it and other don't? I want you to find someone who's claimed hard work was the reason for their success.
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Google hasn't hired anybody. The security company was awarded a contract to provide security services, which is fulfilled by employing some people at "But Google is benefiting from this exploitation!" you might say. Yes. Google can pay less for security services because the guards ultimately cost less. If the guards worked 40 hours/week, the contract cost would have to increase, and another lower cost security compan…
What do you propose for those people who work these non-livable jobs (including security jobs, janitors, restaurant service workers, and whatever else) to allow them to, well, live? Because you can't just ignore it and say they should get better jobs: someone has to do these things.
The truth is some jobs are simply not worth much to the employer. The minimum wage laws generally are designed to ensure a livable (albeit uncomfortable) income for a single adult working full time. In California, the minimum wage is $8/hr, and scheduled to increase to $10/hr within a couple years. This combined with government assistance programs will generally ensure that individuals with the will to work can afford to live near their livelihood ($500/month room with utilities in the bay area with BART access http://sfbay.craigslist.org/eby/roo/4250779898.html). Of course there are several other factors that impact one's ability to sustain themselves:
Dependants - There is government assistance available for dependant children.
Lack of work - The man from this article does not work full time. The availability of full-time jobs aside, it is not reasonable to expect a livable income on part time, unskilled work.
Major unplanned expenses - Things such as unplanned medical expenses or enormous college tuitions or loan repayments will be a burden to someone making minimum wage.
My point is, 1) I do not accept the assumption that certain jobs are non-livable by definition. For an individual working full time without dependants or edge-case financial burdens, you can generally get by in America. 2) "non-livable" jobs only exist when certain edge case financial hardships arise. In general, assistance is available in these cases, and we have systems in place to support people who fall on hard times. Whether these systems are working as intended is beyond the scope of employee compensation, although there is definitely a case for improving these systems.
There is a third, unspoken point about "non-livable" jobs. People who work these jobs are usually not expected to stay very long. Sometimes these are "stepping-stone" opportunities for the young and inexperienced. Other times these jobs act as a safety net for workers who have lost their higher-paying jobs and need to survive until they can be fully employed. I accept there are people who have no plans or hopes of moving on from these jobs, either due to a lack of marketable skills or even language barriers. I don't believe the answer is in regulating these jobs to pay better. I think the answer lies in educational outreach. Instead of bettering the job, let's try to better the individual so they can get a better job.
Finally, I agree that "someone has to do these things". The market will ensure that the things that need to get done are done. Assuming that everyone "gets better jobs", the supply of unskilled laborers will decrease. From economics, I would guess that a lack of supply for certain menial tasks will have one of two outcomes: the price for the menial task will increase ("non-livable" jobs now become more livable), or a substitute will eliminate the need for the work (automation).
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If you really want to pull yourself out of poverty and you’re very lucky , all doors can be open to you. Not everyone will be as lucky as you were.
I'm genuinely curious as to why people believe that it is 100% up to "luck" that some people are successful and others are not. If it was "luck", wouldn't CEOs be evenly distributed amongst minorities, men, and women? Or at least per the population distribution? Or are white males just that much more "lucky" than women and minorities? If you think answering those questions is tough, you and I are on the same page--th…
"Or are white males just that much more "lucky" than women
and minorities?"
Among all those people I've had one black African ask me. I sat down with him for a while giving him tons of advice and corresponded a few times more after that until I got swamped by work.
I've had only one woman ask me (recently, just this past week), but only superficially. She had recently picked up a book on generative art because she fancies being able to do that. Ironically, we have the same exact book at the office because I work with one of the best generative artists in the Bay Area, Reza Ali, so I actually had some decent advice on where to start if she was serious. The conversation was shallow and brief before she got into general discussions about life with my girlfriend who was also in the room. It was simply a qualitatively different way of asking for advice which isn't likely to lead to success. Not all women are like this, I know. But I only have on anecdote thus far and I'm disappointed by this. I'd personally love it if more women coded so I could nerd out about programming with both men and women equally.
The above are only anecdotal (and the plural of anecdotes is not data). Maybe I only have many more male white friends, but my girlfriend certainly does not and her friends are all aware of what I do for a living and I do have a decent amount of contact with them. Near as I can tell from above, the number of minorities that ask for help is roughly in line with base rates. The number of women who ask is not. Women are roughly 50% of the population. If they want to learn and do this kind of thing, they need to ask and then do. This definition of asking and doing for women is "luck". Woman do not lack contact with people that can help if they just asked.
For minorities, it's a bit more sinister in that luck also has an element of propinquity that is far more outside the control of an individual. A minority in a poor neighborhood in the Bay Area is unlikely to come in contact with me or someone like me, so they will never have an opportunity to ask. The guy in this posted article on the other hand does have the luck of propinquity. All he needs to do is walk up to Google employees either before or after his shift and ask a few of them if they are an engineer and if they can offer him advice on how to learn to do what they do. I'd be surprised if he didn't get actionable advice that can get him out of the rut he is in in about 2-3 years.