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What It's Like to Live on Low Pay in a Land of Plenty

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Re: What It's Like to Live on Low Pay in a Land of Plenty

#91

Post by dragonwriter »

WildUtah wrote: post #89
dragonwriter wrote: post #73

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The Bay Area has chosen to be unlivable and unpleasant by its choice of public officials. You seem to confuse "high density" with "livable" or "pleasant". I don't think that makes a lot of sense. > Those city officials have prohibited the practices that make city living affordable. San Francisco -- whose development policies you suggest would make San Jose more affordable -- is more expensive to live in than San Jo…

I've seen dense pleasant and unpleasant and rural pleasant and unpleasant and most possibilities in between. I don't mean to equate the one axis with the other. It is very challenging to build mid-density pleasant surroundings without making car traffic impossibly nasty, though. The DPZ architecture firm in Miami has proven that heroic effort can answer even that challenge. San Francisco is more expensive than San Jo…

> San Francisco is more expensive than San Jose because more people want to live in a city built like SF than one like SJ.

No, its more expensive than SJ because it has a major port (driving commercial value) and substantial beachfront, and because groups attracted directly by those two things also, themselves, produce additional indirect demand.

California communities with even one of these things that are built more like San Jose than San Francisco are often more expensive than San Jose -- and even can be more expensive than San Francisco.

> Correlation isn't causation.

But the absence of correlation is pretty clear disproof of causation.

> The laws of supply and demand show that more supply will lower prices

Sure, more housing supply will lower housing prices -- and the resulting increase in population will increase the demand for everything else that plays into affordability of living in the city. What do the laws of supply and demand say about that?

Re: What It's Like to Live on Low Pay in a Land of Plenty

#92

Post by jeffdavis »

mrow84 wrote: post #57
ericabiz wrote: post #28

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm genuinely curious as to why people believe that it is 100% up to "luck" that some people are successful and others are not. If it was "luck", wouldn't CEOs be evenly distributed amongst minorities, men, and women? Or at least per the population distribution? Or are white males just that much more "lucky" than women and minorities? If you think answering those questions is tough, you and I are on the same page--th…

What is the converse to "luck" in your argument? Is it effort, or work, or something like that? If so, it seems that you are saying that white males just put more effort in than other people. I'm not convinced that that is true. In my opinion, when averaged over the population, a significant component of individual success is "luck", that being the opportunities that are presented to certain individuals, and not to o…

"What is the converse to "luck" in your argument? Is it effort, or work, or something like that?"

There are more inputs than hard work and luck. An obvious example would be the decisions one makes in life.

For instance, having a child at 20 years old, outside of a stable relationship has long been known to have different results than having a child at 25 in a stable relationship.

Decisions themselves have lots of inputs, so it's a complex issue. For instance, family and culture have a big impact on decisions, so those with different backgrounds would be expected to make different decisions, and therefore have different results.

It would be quite a surprise if different families and cultures produced the same results, after all.

Note that I'm certainly not saying that cultures are better or worse than other cultures. They may have different measures of success, for one thing; and even on one measure (like financial success) the rankings of various cultures might change radically if the environment changes.

I guess you could say that it's "luck" to be born into a family and culture that encourage the kind of decisions that are best for the environment you're in, or something like that. But that just doesn't seem to usefully inform any policy proposal.

If bad decisions are a major factor in bad outcomes, it might be more effective to encourage better decisions than to try to deal with the consequences after bad decisions are already made.

Re: What It's Like to Live on Low Pay in a Land of Plenty

#93

Post by DanBC »

w1ntermute wrote: post #79
DanBC wrote: post #74

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> but 95% of unwanted pregnancies are due to failure to use contraception or use it properly [0], which is nothing more or less than sheer irresponsibility on the part of the future parents. He made have made sure that she was using contraception, and not known that she was doing so incorrectly. Or maybe she had some medication interaction that no one warned her about. Or maybe they were one of the 5%.

> He made have made sure that she was using contraception, and not known that she was doing so incorrectly. This is also being irresponsible. Don't stick your dick in crazy. > Or maybe she had some medication interaction that no one warned her about. Not sure what you mean by this, but if she had a latex allergy, there are non-latex condoms as well. Either way, there is no excuse for not using one. > Or maybe they we…

Female birth control pills have a variety of fail methods.

> Don't stick your dick in crazy.

What a vile comment.

Re: What It's Like to Live on Low Pay in a Land of Plenty

#94

Post by pjmorris »

sunnybythesea wrote: post #84
pjmorris wrote: post #60

If everybody learns to code, who's going to be the security guard?

Well...just because someone learns to code, does not mean they will be able to do it full-time. I don't think we'll run into that problem anytime soon

You're right. But, to elaborate, it seems to me that the answer to 'these jobs don't pay enough' is 'get a better job'. The bottom line seems to be 'do what's hard and in fashion (coding), or you can't eat.' Reminds me of the Glengarry Glen Ross contest: 'First prize is a Cadillac, second prize is a set of steak knives, third prize is you're fired.' Is this really how we want to run a society?

Re: What It's Like to Live on Low Pay in a Land of Plenty

#95

Post by ThomPete »

alexeisadeski3 wrote: post #39
ThomPete wrote: post #30

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's luck because plenty of people do exactly the same thing as you and me. Work hard, take what they can get, have ambition and yet still don't make it. If you want to see this in it's purest form look at music and art. Plenty of amazing hardworking musicians that will never make a dime. Plenty of hacks who will.

Why do people always reference hard work? Ditch diggers work hard. Migrant farm laborers work hard. So what?

Because the argument often is that those who make the most worked harder than anyone else.

My point is that most people work hard so it's not by any metrics and explanation for why some people do really well and others don't.

The name of the University you go to however. Now that matters a lot.

Re: What It's Like to Live on Low Pay in a Land of Plenty

#96

Post by [deleted] »

alexeisadeski3 wrote: post #39
ThomPete wrote: post #30

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's luck because plenty of people do exactly the same thing as you and me. Work hard, take what they can get, have ambition and yet still don't make it. If you want to see this in it's purest form look at music and art. Plenty of amazing hardworking musicians that will never make a dime. Plenty of hacks who will.

Why do people always reference hard work? Ditch diggers work hard. Migrant farm laborers work hard. So what?

[deleted]

Re: What It's Like to Live on Low Pay in a Land of Plenty

#97

Post by sp332 »

w1ntermute wrote: post #76
logjam wrote: post #65

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Let us get you straight. "This guy" has a "sense of entitlement" in your little world....because he's taking care of his daughter, worked at a menial job to make ends meets and while he kept studyting and just got his college degree, programs on the side, just got a new job, and took the time and energy to try to improve conditions for his fellow employees....and then geniuses like you whine about "free condoms" and…

He's complaining about a job that's paying $16/hour an hour when the article clearly states that $16.50/hour is enough for a single person to live on in the valley. He says he has to turn down hours because of his daughter, which means he could probably make enough to survive if she wasn't present. Ergo, his current difficulties are largely brought on by the irresponsible impregnation of a woman when he was not ready…

And if we just got rid of half the people on the planet, the rest of us could be twice as rich!

A sense of entitlement means you think someone owes you something you didn't work for. This guy is working hard and looking for ways to earn more which means he's not feeling entitled.

Re: What It's Like to Live on Low Pay in a Land of Plenty

#98

Post by alexeisadeski3 »

ThomPete wrote: post #95
alexeisadeski3 wrote: post #39

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why do people always reference hard work? Ditch diggers work hard. Migrant farm laborers work hard. So what?

Because the argument often is that those who make the most worked harder than anyone else. My point is that most people work hard so it's not by any metrics and explanation for why some people do really well and others don't. The name of the University you go to however. Now that matters a lot.

>Because the argument often is that those who make the most worked harder than anyone else.

I don't think that I've ever heard that argument made in my life.

Re: What It's Like to Live on Low Pay in a Land of Plenty

#99

Post by sp332 »

w1ntermute wrote: post #64
MattGrommes wrote: post #58

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think you're forgetting the phrase "shit happens". There is no way of knowing what happened to the mom or their relationship. And I don't think it matters either. How would his having a wife have any impact on his situation? If she didn't work, it would be another person to take care of. If she did work, they'd have the same childcare problems mentioned in the article. He seems like he's working hard to take care o…

> I think you're forgetting the phrase "shit happens". Oh come on. There is no excuse for not using contraception when you're not financially, emotionally, and maritally prepared to have a child. I don't know about this particular man's case, but 95% of unwanted pregnancies are due to failure to use contraception or use it properly [0], which is nothing more or less than sheer irresponsibility on the part of the futu…

Your statistics are for unwanted pregnancies. I don't see anywhere in the article that the kid was/is unwanted.

Re: What It's Like to Live on Low Pay in a Land of Plenty

#100

Post by sentenza »

jedmeyers wrote: post #85
selmnoo wrote: post #46

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Implicit in your reasoning is the suggestion that a security guard doesn't deserve a dignified living wage. I disagree with that -- I think in a civilized society he should be able to afford his own place, provide for his daughter, give her rides as needed without sacrificing job security, etc. As the other poster mentioned, we /need/ such people... we need people who mow the lawns, people who flip burgers, people wh…

"In a civilized society one should be able to afford his own place, provide for his daughter, give her rides as needed without sacrificing job security, etc" - should society provide a place for a person in a location of its choosing?

Should the door in the location of your choosing have a guard?

Two questions, same answer.

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