Live data from Hacker News

I Hope My Father Dies Soon

dilbert.com

51–60 of 216 posts

Re: I Hope My Father Dies Soon

#51
While it is illegal for Scott to kill his father, or allow the doctors to kill his father, it is not illegal for his father to engage in highly dangerous behavior.

If this were my dad, I would leave him alone in a house with lots of clearly marked poisons, and warn him explicitly not to drink any of them because I absolutely do not want him to drink any of them, and then I would go for a really long walk. It would be a shame if I were to come home and find that he had accidentally taken a drink of poison instead of his beer. A shame.

Re: I Hope My Father Dies Soon

#52

Wow. This touches home with me on many levels. I lost my parents a few years ago. Both suffered. I lost several other close family members who also suffered. And just last week somebody I was close to told me they were dying of cancer. And I'm a libertarian that strongly believes that government should keep its nose out of my life. So, of course, I'm going to play devil's advocate, at least a bit. Because if you can'…

It is important to understand that unless you build an "extreme" living will (food and water denial), there are many circumstances where you will still be tortured indefinitely. I speak from family experience.

My father suffered many strokes towards the end. This caused neuropathic pain ... completely untreatable pain coming from inside his brain (primary somatic sensory cortex). He lost his ability to speak, move, and was basically just in continuous agony, only really maintaining the ability to suffer, with no hope for recovery.

Even with durable power of attorney, withholding food and water requires court orders and takes time (sometimes months)... why is making someone die horrifically of dehydration perfectly legal, but painlessly giving them a shot is illegal?

> I'd also add that this means the family members should be able to dose up grandma with enough morphine to put her out of her misery -- and I imagine such a thing happens a hell of a lot more than we will ever know

That is how my fathers suffering ended. Not by a family member, in the end it was by a nurse. The nurses and doctors and everyone seemed to give quiet nods of agreement after days of failed attempts to mitigate the constant grimace of agony. I don't think anything was ever said explicitly, but eventually a male nurse came in and made it clear that if we wanted it, today could be the last day. The decision ended up falling on me, and I said yes, the door was closed and the nurse pulled out multiple needles of something, to this day I am not sure what, but it was obviously they were packaged individually for dosage control and he had a handful of them. he slowly injected each into the IV without saying a word and my father slipped away. I am not sure I have ever been more grateful for anything prior or since.

Re: I Hope My Father Dies Soon

#53

Since this concerns the U.S. government, I'll say that the vendetta against euthanasia and doctor-assisted suicide by the Christian right is puzzling. The Bible has a very ambivalent view on suicide (as with any other topic), the tale of Samson being a prime example. The main argument against suicide comes from Corinthians, but it is starkly contradicted by other passages. A person who is slowly succumbing, immobile,…

Most folk would choose everything medically possible to be performed to keep them going for another 24 hours. Why question medicine and ethics when you can kick a Christian instead?

Re: I Hope My Father Dies Soon

#54

Physician assisted suicide is a super slippery slope. I'm stunned when thinking people advocate.

> I'm stunned when thinking people advocate. So you come out swinging with a combined ad hominem and argument from incredulity. Brilliant!

We're talking about the same government that hands out death-by-protracted-torture penalties in the War on Drugs. "Are you insane?" is a logical, rational counterargument to the question of whether that government should be inferring a person's death wish. It is not even a slippery slope for an American assisted suicide law to kill someone with a heroin overdose for having a hopeless life owing to them being trapped in permanent solitary confinement owing to conviction on heroin possession.

Re: I Hope My Father Dies Soon

#55

Maybe he just didn't mention it, but nowhere in that post does it say that it was his father's wish to die if he was in such a situation. Helping someone die who made their wishes clear, I'm perfectly okay with. But assuming someone wants to die, I'm not. Whether his father made it clear or not, I don't know. It just isn't in the post.

I looked for that also and there was no mention. There's no doubt that if that was actually his father's expressed wish he would have featured that prominently in his article.

What he does state is:

> I'd like to proactively end his suffering and let him go out with some dignity. But my government says I can't make that decision. Neither can his doctors.

He also points out early in the article that there are financial considerations:

> His smallish estate pays about $8,000 per month to keep him in this state of perpetual suffering.

Re: I Hope My Father Dies Soon

#56
post #6

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Life is a slippery slope. We need to deal with death like grownups. To address your fears, we should have simple, straightforward protocols for how this would work.

I would say exactly the opposite. To the extent euthanasia might be called for we need unspoken nod and furtive protocols. Explicitly legitimized murder by doctors is a horrible idea.

we need unspoken nod and furtive protocols.

That pretty much guarantees the twisted version where the kids kill off grandma for the house.

Re: I Hope My Father Dies Soon

#57

As broken as our system is (and Scott's obvious pain should make it clear that it _is_ broken), there are things you can do to make it suck just a little less. Please talk to your family and your doctor about your wishes in terms of life-sustaining care. Even in your 20's, in perfect health, please take some time to become informed about what the options are and how you can express what you want done or not done (thi…

Also, the more extreme it is, the more you need a lawyer to verify it will hold up. For example, denial of food and water is considered "extreme", if you want that in your paperwork... have a lawyer do a double check.

Re: I Hope My Father Dies Soon

#58
post #36

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> not to stay on life support Ceasing or preventing disproportionate medical measures is a very different thing than decisively murdering somebody. To my understanding, living wills already allow the former.

>decisively murdering somebody Is that what Scott Adams was proposing? I'd think you'd be hardpressed to find someone who is interested in decisive murder. Edit: lostlogin - you're right. Those horrors exist. I'm not from the U.S. so I forget that such medieval concepts are still in practice. Again, the great irony - the right to die is not allowed but can be forced on you.

The US. Drones and the death penalty are what I have in mind. And neither of those are going away soon. Not that many countries are any better, we just don't have the money to keep up.

Re: I Hope My Father Dies Soon

#59

Since this concerns the U.S. government, I'll say that the vendetta against euthanasia and doctor-assisted suicide by the Christian right is puzzling. The Bible has a very ambivalent view on suicide (as with any other topic), the tale of Samson being a prime example. The main argument against suicide comes from Corinthians, but it is starkly contradicted by other passages. A person who is slowly succumbing, immobile,…

> the Christian right insists that the agony be prolonged to a maximum I'm not aware of anyone of any ideological stripe who insists disproportionate medical measures must be taken to keep somebody alive. On the other hand, the Hippocratic oath far predates Christ. By the way, I'm not sure you understand Christianity's relationship to the bible. It's a small minority of Christians who subscribe to anything like the s…

[deleted]

Re: I Hope My Father Dies Soon

#60

Please HN don't disappoint me with "slippery slope" and "it's too complicated" arguments. I want to continue to believe the level of discourse here is better than that. Its not just do-able ... doctor-assisted suicide is right.

Yes, because slippery slopes doesn't exist.

Or because we should not discuss the implications of a possible slippery slope?

Note I'm not telling you what is right or wrong but I insist on the right to discuss relevant issues, in ethnic as well as in technical questions.

Post reply on HN