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I Hope My Father Dies Soon

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Re: I Hope My Father Dies Soon

#41

Post by GalacticDomin8r »

vezzy-fnord wrote: post #26

Since this concerns the U.S. government, I'll say that the vendetta against euthanasia and doctor-assisted suicide by the Christian right is puzzling. The Bible has a very ambivalent view on suicide (as with any other topic), the tale of Samson being a prime example. The main argument against suicide comes from Corinthians, but it is starkly contradicted by other passages. A person who is slowly succumbing, immobile,…

The bible doesn't condemn suicide(or abortion) anywhere in it directly. However, as with any good moral book, it is ambiguous. You can use it advocate any position you chose.

> Yet the Christian right insists that the agony be prolonged to a maximum.

Christianity didn't always hold this view. I suppose some of the movement comes from the commandment "Thou shall not kill". Of course that is a very poor translation. A better one would be "Thou shall not kill without justification".

Re: I Hope My Father Dies Soon

#42

Post by stickhandle »

Please HN don't disappoint me with "slippery slope" and "it's too complicated" arguments. I want to continue to believe the level of discourse here is better than that. Its not just do-able ... doctor-assisted suicide is right.

Re: I Hope My Father Dies Soon

#43

Post by darkarmani »

a8da6b0c91d wrote: post #3

Physician assisted suicide is a super slippery slope. I'm stunned when thinking people advocate.

> Physician assisted suicide is a super slippery slope

This has been disproven by the countries that have implemented it and not "slipped...unless you have some evidence of it being slippery?

Re: I Hope My Father Dies Soon

#44

Post by DanielBMarkham »

znowi wrote: post #11

I get the story and am sympathetic to the OP, but a little confused about this line: And while I'm at it, I might want you to die a painful death too. Is he just angry at everyone?

"Is he just angry at everyone?"

He is irrationally distraught, to the point of advocating violence.

The reason this piece works (for me) is that everybody is irrationally distraught at this time in their life. So while I get that he wants pain and suffering inflicted on those he views as responsible for his dad's suffering, I could line up a million more people who want to cling onto dear grandpa as long as the old guy has a breath. Everybody is irrational and emotional at this time. That's the nature of the phase of your life that involves burying people you love. And it's the exact reason that others behave in ways he finds abhorrent.

Re: I Hope My Father Dies Soon

#45

Post by acdha »

snez wrote: post #25

Although I'm on the author's side, things like http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/home-news/alzheimers-tr... make me think twice on whether I'm right or wrong.

1. Wait until something ships before thinking it's changed anything. Medicine is littered with would-be wonder drugs which turned out to have critical shortcomings — if these were easy problems, they'd already be done by now.

2. In many cases, new treatments don't help outside of the early stages — in the story you linked, the description suggests that the treatment wouldn't help someone who's already in an advanced stage of the disease. Great for the future, perhaps, but cold comfort to when someone is already past the point of permanent damage.

Re: I Hope My Father Dies Soon

#46

Post by foobarqux »

forktheif wrote: post #17

Maybe he just didn't mention it, but nowhere in that post does it say that it was his father's wish to die if he was in such a situation. Helping someone die who made their wishes clear, I'm perfectly okay with. But assuming someone wants to die, I'm not. Whether his father made it clear or not, I don't know. It just isn't in the post.

What about assuming they want to suffer?

Re: I Hope My Father Dies Soon

#47

Post by darkarmani »

haldujai wrote: post #24
a8da6b0c91d wrote: post #3

Physician assisted suicide is a super slippery slope. I'm stunned when thinking people advocate.

To expand on this. How do you decide when it is appropriate for euthanasia? Is it only for terminal patients? Patients with chronic incurable diseases? What about people with Huntington's and are otherwise healthy? Are depressed people who can't bring themselves to commit suicide afforded access to physician assisted suicide? If a demented patient had previously requested not to be killed earlier, but now in their de…

How do you decide when it is appropriate for the police to use lethal force?

I think you've fallen into the trap that the world should only implement perfect solutions.

Re: I Hope My Father Dies Soon

#48

Post by lostlogin »

JshWright wrote: post #30
vezzy-fnord wrote: post #26

Since this concerns the U.S. government, I'll say that the vendetta against euthanasia and doctor-assisted suicide by the Christian right is puzzling. The Bible has a very ambivalent view on suicide (as with any other topic), the tale of Samson being a prime example. The main argument against suicide comes from Corinthians, but it is starkly contradicted by other passages. A person who is slowly succumbing, immobile,…

I realize it's our own doing, but there is nothing 'right' (or 'left') about Christianity. That being said... your post is completely accurate (in my experience), and speaking as a Christian, that infuriates me (likely even more than it does you...)

In a 2 party system it pretty much is right or left. As a foreigner I'd argue that its far right and right though.

Re: I Hope My Father Dies Soon

#49

Post by a8da6b0c91d »

vezzy-fnord wrote: post #26

Since this concerns the U.S. government, I'll say that the vendetta against euthanasia and doctor-assisted suicide by the Christian right is puzzling. The Bible has a very ambivalent view on suicide (as with any other topic), the tale of Samson being a prime example. The main argument against suicide comes from Corinthians, but it is starkly contradicted by other passages. A person who is slowly succumbing, immobile,…

> the Christian right insists that the agony be prolonged to a maximum

I'm not aware of anyone of any ideological stripe who insists disproportionate medical measures must be taken to keep somebody alive. On the other hand, the Hippocratic oath far predates Christ.

By the way, I'm not sure you understand Christianity's relationship to the bible. It's a small minority of Christians who subscribe to anything like the scriptural literalism you evoke. A lot of them happen to be American Calvinists, but they're still a small minority.

Re: I Hope My Father Dies Soon

#50

Post by GalacticDomin8r »

kordless wrote: post #35
GalacticDomin8r wrote: post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I'm stunned when thinking people advocate. So you come out swinging with a combined ad hominem and argument from incredulity. Brilliant!

Pointing it out with a logically equivalent blaming statement probably isn't going to help. It would be better to suggest an alternate wording: "People who are capable of higher level thinking and who are directly affected by a given issue may want to carefully consider whether or not advocating for a given solution will bring an overall positive impact to the issue. I'm surprised Scott Adams is wishing harm on other…

> Pointing it out with a logically equivalent blaming statement probably isn't going to help.

It wasn't meant to help the OP. I have no belief a logical and reasoned conversation could occur there. It was meant to help those reading it determine what methods were used. It does help those unfamiliar with structured reason and Socratic thought principles.

> It would be better to suggest an alternate wording:

I completely reject your alternate wording. Make it your own, not mine.

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