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I Hope My Father Dies Soon

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Re: I Hope My Father Dies Soon

#31

Post by a8da6b0c91d »

marquis wrote: post #7
a8da6b0c91d wrote: post #3

Physician assisted suicide is a super slippery slope. I'm stunned when thinking people advocate.

It works very well in countries such as the Netherlands, I've seen that first hand in cancer cases. It is the most dignified thing to do for a thinking person. Do you have examples where a large percentage of the cases are obvious malpractice? I have long planned that I will do everything in my power not to stay on life support, and recommend you do the same for the sake of your family and your sanity.

> not to stay on life support

Ceasing or preventing disproportionate medical measures is a very different thing than decisively murdering somebody. To my understanding, living wills already allow the former.

Re: I Hope My Father Dies Soon

#32

Post by dsego »

I suggest watching Terry Pratchett's thought-provoking and humbling documentary Choosing To Die (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=slZnfC-V1SY). It covers the topic of assisted suicide and towards the end of the film we can witness a man ending his life in a Swiss clinic. It is also a very personal subject for Terry, as he was diagnosed with Alzheimer's and is afraid to live without being able to use his mind and write books.

Re: I Hope My Father Dies Soon

#34

Post by knome »

melling wrote: post #13

The Singularity is about 30 years out, or so we're led to believe. It takes about 10 years and billions of dollars to create a new drug, and that time and cost is not decreasing. Stories like this are a grim reminder of how much work we really must do. "Fixing" the human body is a really hard problem.

Yeah, the greatly heralded technocratic revolution will just mean they can keep vegetables alive and the sickly suffering indefinitely. One day we'll have the chance to remain an inert blob of flesh floating in a pool of artificial everythings designed to leech our remaining wealth far longer than anything we can currently imagine.

There is good sense in demanding people seek counseling and help if they are depressed and leaning toward self injury. The amorality of forcing the suffering to continue existing without possibility of respite using the former as the excuse is a social problem that no amount of technology will suffice to repair.

Re: I Hope My Father Dies Soon

#35

Post by kordless »

GalacticDomin8r wrote: post #10
a8da6b0c91d wrote: post #3

Physician assisted suicide is a super slippery slope. I'm stunned when thinking people advocate.

> I'm stunned when thinking people advocate. So you come out swinging with a combined ad hominem and argument from incredulity. Brilliant!

Pointing it out with a logically equivalent blaming statement probably isn't going to help.

It would be better to suggest an alternate wording: "People who are capable of higher level thinking and who are directly affected by a given issue may want to carefully consider whether or not advocating for a given solution will bring an overall positive impact to the issue. I'm surprised Scott Adams is wishing harm on others while at the same time appears to be ignoring the complex issues related to the government sanctioning assisted suicide."

Clearly Adams is grieving. From experience, having a parent suffer sucks. Losing a parent is even worse. Suicide is a complex issue and I respect the fact others consider how difficult it can be to legislate it properly.

Edit: clarified the 'assisted' portion of the argument.

Re: I Hope My Father Dies Soon

#36

Post by marquis »

a8da6b0c91d wrote: post #31
marquis wrote: post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It works very well in countries such as the Netherlands, I've seen that first hand in cancer cases. It is the most dignified thing to do for a thinking person. Do you have examples where a large percentage of the cases are obvious malpractice? I have long planned that I will do everything in my power not to stay on life support, and recommend you do the same for the sake of your family and your sanity.

> not to stay on life support Ceasing or preventing disproportionate medical measures is a very different thing than decisively murdering somebody. To my understanding, living wills already allow the former.

>decisively murdering somebody

Is that what Scott Adams was proposing? I'd think you'd be hardpressed to find someone who is interested in decisive murder.

Edit: lostlogin - you're right. Those horrors exist. I'm not from the U.S. so I forget that such medieval concepts are still in practice. Again, the great irony - the right to die is not allowed but can be forced on you.

Re: I Hope My Father Dies Soon

#38

Post by dsego »

snez wrote: post #25

Although I'm on the author's side, things like http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/home-news/alzheimers-tr... make me think twice on whether I'm right or wrong.

Miracle cures are announced all the time. Cancer-patients in their terminal phase usually get told that a new ground-breaking drug is right around the corner.

Re: I Hope My Father Dies Soon

#39

Post by marquis »

DanielBMarkham wrote: post #8

Wow. This touches home with me on many levels. I lost my parents a few years ago. Both suffered. I lost several other close family members who also suffered. And just last week somebody I was close to told me they were dying of cancer. And I'm a libertarian that strongly believes that government should keep its nose out of my life. So, of course, I'm going to play devil's advocate, at least a bit. Because if you can'…

>if the state requires doctors to assist you, or the state requires insurance companies to require doctors to assist you

I'd see it working similarly to gay marriage: no bishop or chaplain is forced to marry two people, but it leaves plenty of open-minded officials to help if they want to.

Re: I Hope My Father Dies Soon

#40

Post by marquis »

haldujai wrote: post #24
a8da6b0c91d wrote: post #3

Physician assisted suicide is a super slippery slope. I'm stunned when thinking people advocate.

To expand on this. How do you decide when it is appropriate for euthanasia? Is it only for terminal patients? Patients with chronic incurable diseases? What about people with Huntington's and are otherwise healthy? Are depressed people who can't bring themselves to commit suicide afforded access to physician assisted suicide? If a demented patient had previously requested not to be killed earlier, but now in their de…

Base it on a system that is already working:

http://www.patientsrightscouncil.org/site/holland-background...

EDIT: oh dear, I did not read the rest of this article. It is actually vehemently opposed to Euthanasia and quite interesting (though very biased).

"The study found that, in spite of the fact that medical care is provided to everyone in Holland, palliative care (comfort care) programs, with adequate pain control techniques and knowledge, were poorly developed"

That is ridiculous. I spent hours with a friend recently receiving the most extraordinary palliative care, in his own home, before deciding to euthanize (fortunately he died the day earlier).

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