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One Woman's Dangerous War Against the Most Hated Man on the Internet

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171–180 of 206 posts

Re: One Woman's Dangerous War Against the Most Hated Man on the Internet

#171
post #154

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And what moved the legislation? Culture.

No, plenty of times the legislation is pushed through in spite of culture. Look at the banning of smoking in pubs and restaurants. When that was passed in Britain, it was considered hugely out of step with people's attitudes. Now it seems perfectly normal, but that kind of change came long before the cultural change. I'd say the same about the first legal change to allow gay sexual relationships. If you'd conducted a…

it was considered hugely out of step with people's attitudes

.. as expressed via the newspapers and (some) television. It's certainly true that for a politician to do the right thing, it's necessary for them to go against "public opinion", but I'm not sure that "public opinion" and the actual opinions of members of the public are the same thing. In fact, the ban was introduced in 2007, by which point only 25% of people smoked, down from over 40% of men and 35% of women in 1980 and over 60% of men and 40% of women in 1960. It's just as easy to argue that the ban was only introduced once smokers were in a clear and shrinking minority, hardly an example of great political bravery. EDIT: a poll from 2005 shows 73% of people in support of a ban when given a yes/no choice, although this declines if compromise options such as legally enforced no-smoking areas are offered: http://ukpollingreport.co.uk/blog/archives/43

If you believed the newspapers, you'd think that most British people want to withdraw from the EU (despite voting in favour of the common market in the only referendum we ever had on it), bring back capital punishment (despite it being long gone and there having been no popular campaign for its return) and deport a couple of million people for being insufficiently British (despite the fact that nobody has ever voted for this in large enough numbers to even start thinking about it; the Tories are only against increases in immigration and even this moderation of their past stance was only enough to get them into government via a coalition).

Without wishing to romanticise the good sense of the electorate, generally most people are more reasonable than the media makes them look. I think that's compatible with the notion that politicians follow the prevailing culture (possibly because, via doorstep campaigning and MP's surgeries they actually speak to real people every now and then) and it's the media that makes things look otherwise. It's true that going against the media does require some bravery on the part of our politicians, but I think past experience shows that when the politicians are in touch with what people actually want, it's the media that has to change course and adapt its view of "public opinion" to reality.

Re: One Woman's Dangerous War Against the Most Hated Man on the Internet

#172

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Can you please explain why not showing boobies on TV is a sign of "cultural degradation" and all the other insults that michaelochurch was flinging around but (e.g.) murdering 80 or so million people is not?

I think the problem is just that your view does not pander to the naïveté about Europe and the, mostly, ironic low esteem America is in around here.

Sure. Note the down mod for something that doesn't adhere to the received wisdom (but happens to be true nonetheless).

Re: One Woman's Dangerous War Against the Most Hated Man on the Internet

#173
post #70

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Courts don't exist to solve all disputes, surely. One clear indication that this is not an appropriate dispute to solve using men with guns is the fact that she had to rely on awkward legal maneuvers (retroactively registering the photo with the copyright office and sending a DMCA notice) that clearly weren't intended for this. The alternative is not to engage in a different form of violence, but rather to ignore it…

However, they lost their job due to the prudish culture that I originally referred to, not directly by the actions of the villain. Ah, so his villainy is rendered less villainous by this fact? His villainy is somehow not his responsibility, because his impact was indirect ? Or do you mean to suggest that the wronged women, instead of pursuing the man who targeted them EXPRESSLY TO RUIN THEIR LIVES should instead unde…

He didn't say Moore was less villain. He's saying Moore is not the only one to blame, and that can be understood: would you accept being fired because your boss saw a picture of you having a tennis game ? would you accept if it was a photo of a lunch with your friends ?

There is no reason a boss can fire you because of your private life.

Re: One Woman's Dangerous War Against the Most Hated Man on the Internet

#174
post #70

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A litigious culture in which courts and police are heavily relied on to solve disputes. That's what the courts ARE FOR. Are you saying you'd prefer to live in the world where Charlotte flies to Sacramento and calls Hunter out at high noon in a cowboy hat? Because it seems fairly clear the "negotiation" option was a complete non-starter.

Courts don't exist to solve all disputes, surely. One clear indication that this is not an appropriate dispute to solve using men with guns is the fact that she had to rely on awkward legal maneuvers (retroactively registering the photo with the copyright office and sending a DMCA notice) that clearly weren't intended for this. The alternative is not to engage in a different form of violence, but rather to ignore it…

> Courts don't exist to solve all disputes, surely.

Courts exist, among other things, to solve such relatively petty disputes as whether you were ripped off over a £50 TV, or whether people moved a fence an inch. The magnitude of harm here is clearly greater; I've yet to hear of someone otherwise stable being driven to suicide over a TV.

It's not sufficient support for the idea that the courts shouldn't address something to say that someone had to do some legal manoeuvring because it's not specifically covered yet.

> However, they lost their job due to the prudish culture that I originally referred to, not directly by the actions of the villain.

Why should that make a difference? He clearly was aware of the harm he was contributing to, in a fairly major way, and continued with it anyway. There was a clear line of cause and effect from his actions to the harm, that he was aware of. That this line was social rather than physical in nature strike me as an arbitrary distinction. If I put a bounty out on you, the line of effect is social rather than physical in nature as well; I didn't pull the trigger, it's just that I was talking to a greedy person who valued money more than your life.

Re: One Woman's Dangerous War Against the Most Hated Man on the Internet

#175
post #22

At some point can't she say "so there's a picture of my left tit on the net, and?" Also I don't understand why people like Moore haven't been sued into the ground for profiting from copyright violation. (edit: I mean other than the whole upfront cost aspect, but given how frickin' insane copyright penalties are, you would think some or other lawyer would take it on a no-win no-fee basis.)

> copyright violation

I tend to be on the opinion that all forms of art are in the public domain by default, unless explicitely stated. So, there would be no breach of copyright here.

However, there is a clear breach on privacy rights, and I'm scared no one in the article or here seems to think that this is the reason why Moore should be prosecuted. The author says than more than half of her contacts are on the site against their own will, for something that is private to their life. That alone is not OK. Copyrights have nothing to do here.

Re: One Woman's Dangerous War Against the Most Hated Man on the Internet

#176

Just a thought: if every American here railing against the ridiculously prudish American culture could pretty please keep in mind that if they offer a service that for instance bans people from posting pictures or distributing apps because "boobies", you are part of the problem. This is often so easily dismissed on HN as "my product, my rules", when it is actually a political statement of support for, or at least sur…

This should be blatantly obvious, but thank you for pointing it out. I think that many people are blind to social expectations, taboos and their social context.

I think Paul Graham's essay about mental fashions is a great summary of this type of mental stretching, but most people fall far from the philosophic ideal of being able to see society's unwritten rules from a distance.

http://paulgraham.com/say.html

Re: One Woman's Dangerous War Against the Most Hated Man on the Internet

#177
post #151

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Particularly considering he got people fired. Perhaps we need to look at this from a different angle. Why can employers fire me for having a naked picture taken? Perhaps we need to roll back no-fault firing as well. I think the comment was talking about changing social attitude more than anything else if I read it right. If we make it normal to have nude pictures on the Internet, then these sites will automatically…

Why can employers fire me for having a naked picture taken? Perhaps we need to roll back no-fault firing as well. Why can people choose not to purchase from Chick-a-Fil because they dislike the anti-gay opinions of the owner? Perhaps we need to roll back no-fault failure to purchase chicken as well. Meanwhile, back in a free society, people are allowed to freely associate with whoever they choose even if we disagree…

> Meanwhile, back in a free society, people are allowed to freely associate with whoever they choose even if we disagree with their opinions.

BS. We are not allowed to discriminate on the basis of several criteria. Government agencies certainly cannot refuse service on arbitrary criteria, and minority groups throughout history have had to resort to the law due to the fact that oppressive majorities might be unfairly boycotting them.

There is no such thing as a "free society"; there are societies with different values and with different criteria as to who are fairly and unfairly victimized.

For the record, in most civilized countries at-will employment where you can be fired on the spot without compensation for no justification is considered to be a gross undermining of worker's rights.

Re: One Woman's Dangerous War Against the Most Hated Man on the Internet

#178
post #65

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Maybe in the US. I don't know, can't really see the slut-shaming working to this extent here in the UK, let alone other parts of Europe. Hell, Italy had an ex-pornstar as a member of parliament for some time IIRC.

The parliament is a sideshow. What happens to an average person in their lives is a totally different story. But I do find it entertaining that you believe there are no Italian misogynists that would use nude photos or videos against a woman. It's not naive at all. :)

>> But I do find it entertaining that you believe there are no Italian misogynists that would use nude photos or videos against a woman. It's not naive at all. :)

Who said that? Certainly not me. I wonder where you read that?

I said they would find it hard for slut shaming to work to the same extent - i.e. someone's life ruined over a stolen picture.

Re: One Woman's Dangerous War Against the Most Hated Man on the Internet

#179
post #175
post #22

At some point can't she say "so there's a picture of my left tit on the net, and?" Also I don't understand why people like Moore haven't been sued into the ground for profiting from copyright violation. (edit: I mean other than the whole upfront cost aspect, but given how frickin' insane copyright penalties are, you would think some or other lawyer would take it on a no-win no-fee basis.)

> copyright violation I tend to be on the opinion that all forms of art are in the public domain by default, unless explicitely stated. So, there would be no breach of copyright here. However, there is a clear breach on privacy rights, and I'm scared no one in the article or here seems to think that this is the reason why Moore should be prosecuted. The author says than more than half of her contacts are on the site…

>> I tend to be on the opinion that all forms of art are in the public domain by default, unless explicitely stated. So, there would be no breach of copyright here.

This is factually incorrect.

There is copyright on any and all creations unless explicitly licensed otherwise. This is under the Berne convention. In the US you can register copyrighted works but only to access the higher punitive damages for infringement. It became the law in the US that all works were auto-copyrighted when the Berne convention was signed into law.

>> Copyrights have nothing to do here.

They do, it's stolen* works that are not licensed to the site, and as the escalation of penalties under copyright law has been so huge recently, it may be the best weapon to take these people down.

*(I don't usually like the use of the word "steal" or "stolen" in conjunction with copyright, but where it involves actually breaking in to people's mail accounts and taking things I don't necessarily think it's inaccurate)

Re: One Woman's Dangerous War Against the Most Hated Man on the Internet

#180
post #78

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In decent societies nudity isn't even something considered worth taking pictures over. Try visiting Austria for example during the summer and taking a swim. Good luck find any non-naked beaches (at least partial), where anyone cares.

Not everyone in Austria takes part in nude beaches, etc, etc ... Is this really where we are at HN? We are going to pretend that big bad America is the only place in the world where there are any people that assign any sort of charge to sexuality?

I do apologise if I generalized there. Just my perspective as a foreigner in Austria, it feels like a wonderland when it comes to the body image.
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