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Startups Like Berlin Because Visa Rules Are Nothing Like the U.S.

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Re: Startups Like Berlin Because Visa Rules Are Nothing Like the U.S.

#171

Post by coconutrandom »

okeumeni wrote: post #32

This is controversial but it is my personal experience: As a non-white, living in Germany is hard; the level of bigotry and racism in my opinion makes the nuisance of the US visa system negligible. Most tech immigrants are non-whites so I think a debate over immigration should take into account the quality of life for the techies and their family. Sure the US still have a lot to do to improve its visa system, but the…

I'm sorry about that. As an also non white developer my personal experience has been the extreme opposite. Even my pathetic attempts at German were held in good humor.

And getting the visa was amazingly easy too. Got it within a week, but go with a native speaker.

Re: Startups Like Berlin Because Visa Rules Are Nothing Like the U.S.

#172

Post by godzilla82 »

kops wrote: post #155
oijaf888 wrote: post #125

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not visiting the US as a tourist due to the laws on salaried employees seems a bit short sighted.

I know it may sound illogical, but no decision is taken in isolation. Years ago I decided not to do anything with middle eastern countries for what they did to non-muslims, immigrants or to their own women. I still go fill gas in my car knowingly fully well how hypocritical it is, but I pray everyday for Elon Musk to succeed and for us to be off this hook. If US, a country made by immigrants, treats immigrants badly,…

You are right, it is illogical indeed. Sorry. This is why I think every one should get a basic course in economics.

Re: Startups Like Berlin Because Visa Rules Are Nothing Like the U.S.

#173

Post by peterjmag »

speedracr wrote: post #149
makmanalp wrote: post #114

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So what's the catch? What's worse about the Blue Card / why would you ever get the work permit?

The Blue Card requires that you have a job contract or very concrete job offer with a minimum salary, and will more or less be tied to that job: If you lose your job, they apparently can give you some time to find a new one, but you may get kicked out if you fail in that endeavor. Also, if you want to change jobs away from the one that originally got you the Blue Card, you'll have to get formal approval. (Edit: this…

Yep, the permit is tied to a specific job for the first two years[1]. From what I understand, it's pretty easy to get approval for a different job, as long as the job description is similar. Interestingly, my residence permit also says "selbständig Tätigkeit gestattet" (self-employment permitted), so it seems I could freelance here without needing a different visa.

[1] http://www.berlin.de/labo/auslaender/dienstleistungen/index....

Re: Startups Like Berlin Because Visa Rules Are Nothing Like the U.S.

#174

Post by nsenifty »

Aloisius wrote: post #98
claudius wrote: post #80

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Out of state tuition is typically expensive if you want to go to a top university, but the average community college is downright cheap. Studying at Germany’s best public universities (e.g. LMU Munich, FU Berlin etc.) will set you back about 250 € per term (6 months), which includes a public transport ticket (or about 50€ if said public transport ticket is not mandatory for all students). How ‘cheap’ exactly is a c…

California Community College tuition is about $1,100 per year and another $1,700 in books and supplies. That excludes room and board, personal expenses, transportation and the like. That's not quite as low as Germany, but very doable. California State University system by comparison costs $6,600 in tuition for the year while the University of California system is around $13,000. Of course both of those are probably l…

The tuition is higher if you are not already a California resident.

Re: Startups Like Berlin Because Visa Rules Are Nothing Like the U.S.

#175

Post by simonebrunozzi »

wellboy wrote: post #69
chimeracoder wrote: post #33

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> If really wanted to work in Berlin or elsewhere, you'd do it, and it wouldn't be a big deal. This is simply getting at the notion of the premium - how much I value working abroad. A more formal way of asking this question, assuming for simplicity a $100K/year salary: "How attractive (measured in dollars) is the idea of working in Berlin?" If it's worth $30,000/year, you'll do it as long as you can make 70% of your…

Berlin is 3 times cheaper in terms of rent & food than San Francisco.

I don't know if it's 3 times, but I could easily bet on a "at least twice".

Re: Startups Like Berlin Because Visa Rules Are Nothing Like the U.S.

#176

Post by tptacek »

notahacker wrote: post #159
kcorbitt wrote: post #127

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm not sure that everything you said is correct, but the beauty of at-will employment is that it allows most of these problems to be solved by people looking to their own best interests. I don't know many companies that would try anything like that because their entire workforce would likely just give notice and quit. That's not in anyone's best interest, so labor conditions (at least in reasonably in-demand fields)…

The entire workforce can give notice and quit in those conditions in Europe, with better unemployment insurance, free health insurance and much more chance of being able to extricate a financial settlement from their employer for unfair treatment. I'm not saying nothing about at-will contracts filter down to benefit employees: US companies can often afford to pay higher salaries which on some occasions even correspon…

Health insurance in Europe is not free; it's simply not managed by employers.

Re: Startups Like Berlin Because Visa Rules Are Nothing Like the U.S.

#177

Post by alexatkeplar »

Aloisius wrote: post #108
lightbritefight wrote: post #68

Earlier quoted context omitted.

| Where in the US are you talking about? While we don't tend to have laws mandating sick leave, nearly every company that you'd immigrate for gives it. I've never worked anywhere that didn't offer at least two weeks of vacation. No offense, but your proof here is purely anecdotal. I've worked for employers who offer less than two weeks. My first STEM job offered 5 days your first year, with 5 more each additional yea…

No offense, but your proof here is purely anecdotal. I've worked for employers who offer less than two weeks. My first STEM job offered 5 days your first year, with 5 more each additional year, capping at 20. 2 weeks may be thought of as the norm, but since there is no actual law about it, its only a suggestion. For professional jobs in the US, the average paid vacation after the first year of service is 10 days (2 w…

I've often wondered about this. Given how many Americans move cross-country for work, does that mean large numbers spend only a day or two a year with their immediate families?

Re: Startups Like Berlin Because Visa Rules Are Nothing Like the U.S.

#178

Post by ozgune »

mahyarm wrote: post #79
levosmetalo wrote: post #34

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's why there's no rational reason experienced developer who have a wife and kids will choose USA over Germany. In USA he would first need to wait at least one year until his family can arrive, then wait for 5 or more years to get permanent residency (Green Card) in which period his wife will not have permission to work, and he would be unable to plan his future in any significant way because he would live on the…

You can actually get an immigration (green card) visa from outside the country from the start. You could work for Google Berlin/Zurich for example, and then move over when its all processed for a green card on arrival. One co-worker for the startup I work for came from Chile that way. You can also just work for Google in Europe for a year or two, and then get transferred over on a L1/L2 visa where your wife can also…

That's the theory, I'll share my reality.

I'm here on an L1A visa with my spouse. She quit her high paying job and followed me here after our lawyers said that getting the visa was the hard part.

We have been waiting on her L2 work permit since May. Processing time is supposed to be three months. We called, scheduled an appointment with the USCIS, all that. They say it's being processed, and the lawyers say there is nothing to do but wait.

If you search the internet, you'll find plenty of people waiting to hear back from the USCIS for trivial stuff. Apparently, sometimes they even sit on your application for years, wait for the visa to expire, and then reject on that basis.

Re: Startups Like Berlin Because Visa Rules Are Nothing Like the U.S.

#179

Post by walshemj »

chimeracoder wrote: post #33
macspoofing wrote: post #26

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>there is a financial disincentive to working abroad, and that's not taking into account the fact that this is a disincentive to look for jobs abroad If you don't want to do something, you can always rationalize it. If really wanted to work in Berlin or elsewhere, you'd do it, and it wouldn't be a big deal.

> If really wanted to work in Berlin or elsewhere, you'd do it, and it wouldn't be a big deal. This is simply getting at the notion of the premium - how much I value working abroad. A more formal way of asking this question, assuming for simplicity a $100K/year salary: "How attractive (measured in dollars) is the idea of working in Berlin?" If it's worth $30,000/year, you'll do it as long as you can make 70% of your…

Don't forget you will be building up an German pension as well.

I considered going for some dutch jobs one of the reasons woudl be I that I have the max no of qualifying years in the UK pension scheme.

Re: Startups Like Berlin Because Visa Rules Are Nothing Like the U.S.

#180

Post by justinhj »

aianus wrote: post #105
sanskritabelt wrote: post #99

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The only benefit to at-will employment for an employee is you're not tied into things like 'you must work here for 2 years / give 6 months notice', over/under of 15 years for those protections to start being weakened.

There's also the benefit that a company would be more willing to give you a chance at employment knowing they can fire you if it doesn't work out.

Well in Canada you can fire for no reason in the first 3 months anyway.
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