Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

Startups Like Berlin Because Visa Rules Are Nothing Like the U.S.

bloomberg.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

101–110 of 206 posts

Re: Startups Like Berlin Because Visa Rules Are Nothing Like the U.S.

#101

Post by perlgeek »

Qom wrote: post #76
okeumeni wrote: post #32

This is controversial but it is my personal experience: As a non-white, living in Germany is hard; the level of bigotry and racism in my opinion makes the nuisance of the US visa system negligible. Most tech immigrants are non-whites so I think a debate over immigration should take into account the quality of life for the techies and their family. Sure the US still have a lot to do to improve its visa system, but the…

I honestly find that surprising. Germany is the place in Europe where there is the most white guilt. I stayed there for a few months and experienced zero problems.

That doesn't prevent a latent racism in big parts of the population.

Simply growing up with almost no non-whites makes everyone who looks different stand out a lot, and the step from standing out to shunned out is quite small, I'm afraid.

Re: Startups Like Berlin Because Visa Rules Are Nothing Like the U.S.

#102

Post by selmnoo »

Qom wrote: post #76
okeumeni wrote: post #32

This is controversial but it is my personal experience: As a non-white, living in Germany is hard; the level of bigotry and racism in my opinion makes the nuisance of the US visa system negligible. Most tech immigrants are non-whites so I think a debate over immigration should take into account the quality of life for the techies and their family. Sure the US still have a lot to do to improve its visa system, but the…

I honestly find that surprising. Germany is the place in Europe where there is the most white guilt. I stayed there for a few months and experienced zero problems.

You probably didn't go to East Germany then?

I have a lot of (brown) Asian family relatives who've spent decades in Germany, they tell me America is basically a heaven in comparison. Canada is pretty much the only country that comes close to America (according to them -- and my experiences ring true here as well), in not being racist to non-white individuals.

Re: Startups Like Berlin Because Visa Rules Are Nothing Like the U.S.

#103

Post by midnightclubbed »

CodeMage wrote: post #35
parennoob wrote: post #5

As someone who is a non-US citizen going through the tortuous process of acquiring permanent residency in the US (estimated time: 8-10 years), I will advise any international people looking for their first job -- if you can get one in Berlin, Canada, or elsewhere, take it. The US immigration system is fraught with bureaucracy, and is structured such that employers have strong incentives to delay your application for…

Let's say you knew someone who was granted an H1B1 visa based on a combination of some university education (but without getting a degree) and years of relevant experience in the field. Would this person stand a chance of being granted permanent residency?

If your company is prepared to sponsor you for a Green Card (permanent residency) then yes your chances are likely very good. However, be prepared to be in process for a number of years - if the H1B1 expires and you are in Green Card process then you can get extensions, but if your application is then bounced for any reason you are visa-less. The process is stressful, but mostly just paperwork. Get a good immigration lawyer and make sure they do their homework . Good luck!

Re: Startups Like Berlin Because Visa Rules Are Nothing Like the U.S.

#104

Post by kops »

jrockway wrote: post #81
kops wrote: post #48

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I will embrace each of the supposedly problematic things you mentioned in your post any day. They seem rather fair to me. Do you have a different opinion? Why would you want startups to be exempt from this?

I think he wants to make sure people know what they're in for when they leave the US to start a company. In the US, as soon as you pay someone a salary, you basically own them. You can work them 24 hours a day, 7 days a week, with no vacation or minimum wage. You don't have to provide benefits, and you can fire them for absolutely any reason at any time. You even own everything they do in their free time. That's simp…

It sounds even more surprising to me even though I have never been to US. Although I always dreamt to...

Thanks for your post. I mean no disrespect, but could you please link to any references. Specially about the working hours, minimum wage and vacation etc. If it is true then I am going to do myself a favour and trash my US visa right away. I am not much of a traveller but I can always assume that grand canyon doesn't exist or that I can see it in a different life....

Edit: looks like you are right http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Working_time#United_States

Re: Startups Like Berlin Because Visa Rules Are Nothing Like the U.S.

#105

Post by aianus »

sanskritabelt wrote: post #99
justinhj wrote: post #89

Earlier quoted context omitted.

At-will employment seemed like a terrible idea when I worked in the US, at least from the employees point of view. It's essentially enforced opt out of many protections you'd receive in other countries.

The only benefit to at-will employment for an employee is you're not tied into things like 'you must work here for 2 years / give 6 months notice', over/under of 15 years for those protections to start being weakened.

There's also the benefit that a company would be more willing to give you a chance at employment knowing they can fire you if it doesn't work out.

Re: Startups Like Berlin Because Visa Rules Are Nothing Like the U.S.

#106

Post by lsc »

oscargrouch wrote: post #75
lgieron wrote: post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You can also build it in, like, your home town. I don't get this obsession with moving to a startup hub before there's even most remote proof of your startup's viability. To me, it always raises the suspicion that one's less interested in actually building the business and more interested in living inside the movie The Social Network.

I think is the same phenomenon that happen to a lot wannabe-writers or painters; they would move to Paris or New York, just to feel they were real Van Goghs or Proust's :)

>I think is the same phenomenon that happen to a lot wannabe-writers or painters; they would move to Paris or New York, just to feel they were real Van Goghs or Proust's :)

It's nice to be around people who value the things you value. It's nice to have friends you can talk to who understand what you are going through. I know for me, it's nice to be around people who are impressed when I do things that I feel are impressive, and it's nice to be around people who are better than I am.

I mean, yeah, there is a tech scene in davis and in sacramento... but it is a much 'smaller pond' - it really is pretty cool to be able to rub shoulders with the leading voices of your industry, and that's way easier to do here.

In a very real sense, you /can/ come rub shoulders with Van Gogh or Proust here, I mean, figuratively speaking. Many of the leading figures in the industry. Maybe you think wanting that is silly, but... yeah, some of us are really into that sort of thing.

I am in silicon valley, mostly for the social reasons you mention. I think that's valid, and it's worth the extra money for me. It's not worth the extra money for some other people, an that's fine too, but this is what I want to spend my money on, and I feel that I'm getting a reasonable value out of the deal.

(There is also monetary advantages... but if I'm being honest with myself, I'm mostly here for the social advantages.)

Re: Startups Like Berlin Because Visa Rules Are Nothing Like the U.S.

#107

Post by [deleted] »

kops wrote: post #104
jrockway wrote: post #81

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think he wants to make sure people know what they're in for when they leave the US to start a company. In the US, as soon as you pay someone a salary, you basically own them. You can work them 24 hours a day, 7 days a week, with no vacation or minimum wage. You don't have to provide benefits, and you can fire them for absolutely any reason at any time. You even own everything they do in their free time. That's simp…

It sounds even more surprising to me even though I have never been to US. Although I always dreamt to... Thanks for your post. I mean no disrespect, but could you please link to any references. Specially about the working hours, minimum wage and vacation etc. If it is true then I am going to do myself a favour and trash my US visa right away. I am not much of a traveller but I can always assume that grand canyon does…

[deleted]

Re: Startups Like Berlin Because Visa Rules Are Nothing Like the U.S.

#108

Post by Aloisius »

lightbritefight wrote: post #68
Aloisius wrote: post #44

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm not sure I would change EU(ropean) way of life for 50+ work weeks, one week of vacation and no payed sick or parental leave, super expensive education and no universal health care. No paid sick leave? One week of vacation? Super expensive education (for kindergarten???)? Where in the US are you talking about? While we don't tend to have laws mandating sick leave, nearly every company that you'd immigrate for give…

| Where in the US are you talking about? While we don't tend to have laws mandating sick leave, nearly every company that you'd immigrate for gives it. I've never worked anywhere that didn't offer at least two weeks of vacation. No offense, but your proof here is purely anecdotal. I've worked for employers who offer less than two weeks. My first STEM job offered 5 days your first year, with 5 more each additional yea…

No offense, but your proof here is purely anecdotal. I've worked for employers who offer less than two weeks. My first STEM job offered 5 days your first year, with 5 more each additional year, capping at 20. 2 weeks may be thought of as the norm, but since there is no actual law about it, its only a suggestion.

For professional jobs in the US, the average paid vacation after the first year of service is 10 days (2 weeks)[1]. Sadly they don't have statistics for 0-1 years so I don't know if your package was atypical.

That said, we certainly don't match our European counterparts, but then again, we don't even use most of the vacation time we are given every year[2]. The US simply doesn't have a culture of taking vacations like Europe.

[1] http://www.bls.gov/news.release/ebs.t05.htm

[2] http://money.cnn.com/2012/05/18/news/economy/unused_vacation...

Re: Startups Like Berlin Because Visa Rules Are Nothing Like the U.S.

#109

Post by selmnoo »

spikels wrote: post #65

This is a weak article. The headline exaggerates the content of the article as is often the case. Based on anecdotal opinions of two Berlin techies who probably have an incentive to promote Berlin's tech scene. The conclusion is that the German visa process is still intolerable. Yet somehow the application process is better is some ways. Some details of the process would be nice as well numbers of visas granted and t…

The submitter of this article, pg, is in fact a major contributor to the FWD.us intiative [1]. But it's probably better to assume there's a good faith basis in the submission of this article, since we've no reason to believe otherwise. You're very right that Berlin in recent years has been aggressively pushing itself as the next Valley (and I guess to some extent it is succeeding -- you're seeing a few big players emerge from there, Soundcloud being one that everyone knows about).

The reason why it'll never be the next full-on Valley though, in my opinion (as another poster has already mentioned) is the racism there. As a brown guy who's been to a lot of places, let me tell you that there is racism basically everywhere but in America (and Canada). It is of a particularly sharp type in Berlin (and the rest of East Germany). It really puts a burden on you mentally when you have to make everyday life decisions (should I take the train at this time? alone? at $X place?) in efforts of just escaping harassment. For as much as I rail on America for the eroding civil liberties and all, I can not imagine leaving this place for any other.

[1]: http://www.fwd.us/our_supporters

Post reply on HN