Live data from Hacker News

Ask HN: Why the Microsoft hate?

news.ycombinator.com

281–290 of 556 posts

Re: Ask HN: Why the Microsoft hate?

#281

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Apple maintains many of the same positions, yet they are loved. Apple actually uses a lot of open source, yet rarely contribute back. Microsoft Research contributes a ton to computing research. Note: writing this in Google Chrome on my Macbook

Define rarely? What about Webkit, LLVM, and CUPS?

> Define rarely? What about Webkit, LLVM, and CUPS? These were already established opensource technologies. Apple has improved these technologies. But LLVM, Webkit or CUPS would exist even if there was no Apple.

Re: Ask HN: Why the Microsoft hate?

#282
post #163

I'll tell you the story of my friend Greg. Greg has been a believer in Microsoft. He went to all the Tech-Ed conferences, attended every MSDN event he could. Conferences are grand stages that leave an impression. He drank all the cool-aid that was served at these conferences. Things were really good early on, this was the last decade. The computing scene at that time revolved around Microsoft like the many moons of J…

One of my friends is starting a programming bootcamp. He and his assistant have been calling recruiters and tech companies all over the region, cataloguing available jobs and figuring out where the demand is. Their findings: PHP and .Net. That's what the vast majority of companies they spoke to are hiring for. My point is that there's a whole world of tech outside HN.

Was the survey conducted in India, by any chance?

Re: Ask HN: Why the Microsoft hate?

#283
post #244

Earlier quoted context omitted.

WebKit? ALAC? On top of that, Apple's done more than any other single player (except perhaps Adobe!) to move the industry away from Flash, to open alternatives. No, they don't always follow standards or always have open implementations, but their garden is arguably quite a bit less walled than the one in Redmond. Which makes your point a little confusing, at best. Also related: http://www.apple.com/opensource/

KDE started the Webkit stuff. I don't quite get why Apple made ALAC (2004) when FLAC (2001) was already there. > Also related: http://www.apple.com/opensource/ Also related: http://www.microsoft.com/en-us/openness/default.aspx#project... and http://research.microsoft.com/en-us/

Sure, it had its roots in KDE's KHTML and KJS, but WebKit was started as an internal Apple project, and without their efforts it's highly unlikely that KHTML/KJS would have ever developed into the dominant layout engine.

According to the guy who implemented FFmpeg's ALAC encoder, there are power benefits to ALAC over FLAC. ALAC was developed when iPods were struggling to get 8 hours of playback, so it doesn't seem unreasonable that Apple's engineers wanted to be able to match the codec to the hardware as efficiently as possible.

Re: Ask HN: Why the Microsoft hate?

#284

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Speaking of the flamewar detector, I'm curious: what's the balance to be struck between discouraging flamewars (or encouraging civility) and discouraging groupthink? If certain topics are in effect verboten due to the types of discussions they tend to breed, does that not induce a sort of hivemind effect that reinforces prevailing views? For example, if articles on Microsoft tend to get driven off the front page, whi…

People that think this community is pro-Apple should stick around some more. This is the only place were I'm constantly seeing Apple (and Google) badmouthed with good arguments. Personally I hate Apple's products and most of my anti-Apple rhetoric received up-votes. I've seen plenty of Microsoft related stories, but if Microsoft tends to be driven off the front page, maybe it's because Microsoft is totally uninterest…

Being driven off the front page due to lack of upvotes is completely different from having the article killed due to flagging or automatically for other reasons.

People who think all Microsoft proponents are shills are...well, Slashdot already exists, so why do they bother hanging out here? If you aren't interested in something, don't upvote it, but please don't take a dump on it either.

Re: Ask HN: Why the Microsoft hate?

#285

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Speaking of the flamewar detector, I'm curious: what's the balance to be struck between discouraging flamewars (or encouraging civility) and discouraging groupthink? If certain topics are in effect verboten due to the types of discussions they tend to breed, does that not induce a sort of hivemind effect that reinforces prevailing views? For example, if articles on Microsoft tend to get driven off the front page, whi…

People that think this community is pro-Apple should stick around some more. This is the only place were I'm constantly seeing Apple (and Google) badmouthed with good arguments. Personally I hate Apple's products and most of my anti-Apple rhetoric received up-votes. I've seen plenty of Microsoft related stories, but if Microsoft tends to be driven off the front page, maybe it's because Microsoft is totally uninterest…

Agreed, as happy Apple customer I see plenty of anti-apple sentiment. I suppose I'm a little more sensitive to it. This is a common issue on many forums.

Anti-X sentiment takes a lot less effort than writing a cogent pro-X message supporting something, and everything has it's pro- and anti- crowd. I've seen plenty of posters complain that this, and other forums are anti-Apple, anti-Linux or anti-Microsoft when in fact there's a fairly healthy mix of opinion.

Maybe there is a trend against Microsoft in the news and forum world though. It doesn't seem all that long ago that most tech news and most interesting tech articles were about Microsoft products and technologies. Maybe that's still the case and I'm living under a rock, I doubt it because I still use mostly Microsoft platforms at work but it's possible, but there just doesn't seem to be all that much new and interesting stuff coming out of Microsoft these days. It's fairly rare that anything by them moves the needle in terms of tech punditry. They need to radically increase the value proposition of Windows and Metro just doesn't cut it. Maybe the Metro version of Office will help it get some traction but at this stage even that may not be enough.

Re: Ask HN: Why the Microsoft hate?

#286
post #276
post #193

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Another reason for being wary of Microsoft: Their OSes and applications have an auto-run policy (run stuff automatically when a CD is inserted, or scripts in Excel, etc). It is clearly a way to allow viruses into the system, and then make some money from updates and anti-viruses!

Maybe my sarcasm detector if off, but aren't windows updates and Microsoft Security Essentials (a pretty good AV from what I hear, I wouldn't know as I run Linux) completely free?

I don't run Windows either but I read articles in which Microsoft plans to sell their anti-virus service, for example [1].

Moreover, even if these are presently free, in the context of this thread we should consider the experience of users over two decades of history of Windows and Office products!

[1]: http://windowsitpro.com/security/microsoft-should-offer-free...

Re: Ask HN: Why the Microsoft hate?

#287

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Webkit was already open source before Apple started using it. ALAC was closed source until 2011. Microsoft has released open formats as well, like XPS. And Microsoft does open source today as well. That's how the industry works today. Sure flash is bad thing but if Sun had its way with the internet and Microsoft had not stopped them we be all doing Java applets by now. However that's all beside the point, the point i…

Webkit was already open source before Apple started using it. Apple created Webkit. They were using/forked KHTML for that, but it quickly diverged.

Sorry for the error, but yes they forked something already open source.

Re: Ask HN: Why the Microsoft hate?

#288
post #269
post #81

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That article was not flagged off the frontpage. It set off the flamewar detector. As for recoiledsnake, that is one of many accounts created by a group or individual who is either an astroturfer or indistinguishable from one. Part of his/her/their m.o. is to talk constantly about there being an anti-Microsoft conspiracy on HN. Sometimes he/she/they would use multiple, separate accounts in the same thread.

Ironically, this submission is at #8 even though it has 290 points and was submitted just 4 hours ago Meanwhile the #2 item was submitted 5 hours and it only has 90 points. IMO anyone who observes HN reaction to any Microsoft topic (that isn't a virulently anti-Microsoft submission) knows that these topics will get pushed down to the back pages. In some cases, the reason may be flagging, in other cases, it may be the…

> it is unfortunate that pg is unwilling to admit that this is a problem

I think pg thinks there is a problem, and is almost surely willing to admit it.

I think he just doesn't see a way of solving it that doesn't involve the discussions here on HN becoming flamewars... Which is also a serious problem...

This looks to me very much like a doctor prescribing a drug with unfortunate side effects. You still do it, but you're also keeping an eye out for new drugs that don't cause as many headaches.

Re: Ask HN: Why the Microsoft hate?

#289
I think that it's just another herd behavior your see on the internet. When faced with a choice, for vs against, someone would typically choose the crowd. The herd is usually wrong as you'll see many times in the stock market throughout history. All in all it's ugly to see, people jumping on the bandwagon for the hell of it, for the same reasons people join riots, for the hell of it while there may be legitimate reasons too.

Re: Ask HN: Why the Microsoft hate?

#290
I can't speak for anyone but myself, but I hate Microsoft because they're crooks. They made their money not by creating a better product at a competitive price, but by breaking the law. And then they used the position of power and influence that they had attained by breaking the law not to make the world a better place, but to crush competition and inhibit innovation.

You asked.

Post reply on HN