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Ask HN: Why the Microsoft hate?

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Re: Ask HN: Why the Microsoft hate?

#221

Post by charleslmunger »

primelens wrote: post #111
olalonde wrote: post #20

In case you are genuinely wondering, a lot of the hate towards Microsoft stems from their historical hostility towards open standards[0] and open source[1]. [0] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Embrace,_extend_and_extinguish [1] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Halloween_documents

This! Many hackers who were growing up in the nineties had their opinions of Microsoft negatively affected by the strongarm tactics applied against Linux and open-source/free software. I'd say this strategy continues - e.g. "secure" boot, but the late nineties was when the animosity between the two groups peaked and it has never quite gone away. And I'd add the antitrust case and IE's intransigence to web standards a…

Let us also not forget the fact that microsoft uses their patent portfolio to extort money from android OEMs...

Re: Ask HN: Why the Microsoft hate?

#222

Post by mgraczyk »

jaggederest wrote: post #106
mgraczyk wrote: post #98

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What does a virtual machine + language have to do with a package manager?

Installing mono was significantly more complicated than most vm/language packages on Ubuntu, and required commensurately more upkeep.

Mono is completely installed by default on older versions of Ubuntu (8-11). The runtime with some development tools is installed in 12 and 13. You can get it on any version since 8 with apt-get.

$ sudo apt-get mono-complete $ echo "using System; static class Entry { static void Main() { Console.WriteLine(\"Hello World\"); }}" > hello.cs $ mono-csc hello.cs $ ./hello.exe Hello World

Re: Ask HN: Why the Microsoft hate?

#223

Post by asiekierka »

charleslmunger wrote: post #221
primelens wrote: post #111

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This! Many hackers who were growing up in the nineties had their opinions of Microsoft negatively affected by the strongarm tactics applied against Linux and open-source/free software. I'd say this strategy continues - e.g. "secure" boot, but the late nineties was when the animosity between the two groups peaked and it has never quite gone away. And I'd add the antitrust case and IE's intransigence to web standards a…

Let us also not forget the fact that microsoft uses their patent portfolio to extort money from android OEMs...

Apple?

Re: Ask HN: Why the Microsoft hate?

#224

Post by PhasmaFelis »

donretag wrote: post #153
olalonde wrote: post #20

In case you are genuinely wondering, a lot of the hate towards Microsoft stems from their historical hostility towards open standards[0] and open source[1]. [0] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Embrace,_extend_and_extinguish [1] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Halloween_documents

Apple maintains many of the same positions, yet they are loved. Apple actually uses a lot of open source, yet rarely contribute back. Microsoft Research contributes a ton to computing research. Note: writing this in Google Chrome on my Macbook

These days, Apple is probably more hated than Microsoft. Not as much as MS was back in the day, but more than modern, sheepish-looking Microsoft.

I gotta say it weirds me out when people assert that everyone loves Apple, because it happens a lot; almost as often as people go on vitriolic rants against everything Apple-related.

Re: Ask HN: Why the Microsoft hate?

#225

Post by sliverstorm »

rmrfrmrf wrote: post #170
lessnonymous wrote: post #117

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So the article might be useful to people building businesses in the tech space, but because some users decided to air their petty grievances in the _comments_ to that story, the story itself got buried? Seems like the flamewar detector would be better aimed at closing comments rather than burying stories.

I like the flamewar detector removing the whole story. As PG has said in the past, flamewars aren't interesting and they do nothing but divide the community. Keeping the story on just causes more drama because the users with comments deleted end up replying asking where their comments went and then start crying about anti-Americanism and the right to comment on a private website ad infinitum. It's pointless.

On the other hand, if you are large-ish and organized, it provides an easy avenue to take down stories you don't like without the paper-trail of flagging...

Re: Ask HN: Why the Microsoft hate?

#226

Post by nivla »

joe_the_user wrote: post #217
nivla wrote: post #212

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>The very recent imposition of the Metro/Windows 8 interface on a widely unwilling public is prima facie evidence of MS' continuing abuse of it's particular monopoly. How is that in any way an evidence for abuse of monopoly? I have Windows 7 on my laptop and have no immediate plans to upgrade it to Windows 8. Unless they force it through automatic updates or cancel my Win 7 license, there is clearly no abuse. You can…

I think you are describing things from the point of view of the aware, tech-savy user. The average user buys stuff and things happen. People bought laptops and the laptops weren't what they were expecting. There's a lot they could have done in the abstract. There's a lot less they were capable of doing in reality.

I can understand from a moral/business perspective that drastic changes should be avoided in new releases but how is that an abuse of monopolistic power?

Would you call Ubuntu's decision to suddenly switch all the window controls (Minimize, Maximize, Close) from left to right in one version an abuse of their "monopoly" in the Linux desktop world?

Re: Ask HN: Why the Microsoft hate?

#227

Post by sliverstorm »

pg wrote: post #199
rpenm wrote: post #126

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There is a perverse incentive here. If commenters can push an article off the front page by flaming, the flamewar detector would actually encourage flaming.

It would be a risky strategy because those commenters could get banned.

But unlike flagging, there is no minimum karma requirement to get involved in a flame war, right?

Re: Ask HN: Why the Microsoft hate?

#228

Post by lmkg »

pg wrote: post #199
rpenm wrote: post #126

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There is a perverse incentive here. If commenters can push an article off the front page by flaming, the flamewar detector would actually encourage flaming.

It would be a risky strategy because those commenters could get banned.

Risky for real commenters who care about their presence on HN. Effectively consequence-free for astroturfers.

Re: Ask HN: Why the Microsoft hate?

#229

Post by lake99 »

joe_the_user wrote: post #188
iamshs wrote: post #40

In that particular thread, I was accused of being a shill and an astroturfer by 3 members. All of the accusers had karma greater than 1500, and atleast two of them were on HN since at least 2 years. Why? Because I posted the spec list of the tablet. And I do not have allegiance to any of the tech companies at all, except having used their products one time or another. MS hate is vicious on here. I remember recoiledsn…

OK, I didn't accuse you but I did accuse another poster of being an MS shill. I'll admit I could have been more diplomatic. Still, as I recall, the person I accused was a professional "evangelist" (or something similar) for MS by their own admission writing an article about, what do you know, hatred of MS. And that's the thing. By the evangelist's own admission, MS is deeply hated in society at large. It's understand…

I'm no fan of MS: see my comments in general. But your criticisms are a bit too extreme. MS announces EOL dates well in advance of stopping sales [1]. Those who want to hoard up on licences can do so. Windows 7 is still available for sale [1]. Those who did not want Metro could still have used Win 7. In any case, MS listened to its customers and brings back these features in Win 8.1 -- or so I hear: Linux single-booter here.

[1] http://windows.microsoft.com/en-us/windows/products/lifecycl...

Re: Ask HN: Why the Microsoft hate?

#230

Post by sliverstorm »

joe_the_user wrote: post #188
iamshs wrote: post #40

In that particular thread, I was accused of being a shill and an astroturfer by 3 members. All of the accusers had karma greater than 1500, and atleast two of them were on HN since at least 2 years. Why? Because I posted the spec list of the tablet. And I do not have allegiance to any of the tech companies at all, except having used their products one time or another. MS hate is vicious on here. I remember recoiledsn…

OK, I didn't accuse you but I did accuse another poster of being an MS shill. I'll admit I could have been more diplomatic. Still, as I recall, the person I accused was a professional "evangelist" (or something similar) for MS by their own admission writing an article about, what do you know, hatred of MS. And that's the thing. By the evangelist's own admission, MS is deeply hated in society at large. It's understand…

The very recent imposition of the Metro/Windows 8 interface on a widely unwilling public is prima facie evidence of MS' continuing abuse of it's particular monopoly.

Huh? First of all, companies impose new things on their customers all the time. Secondly, I thought a company was abusing their monopoly when they use it to extort profit where there was none before? Changing the UI doesn't seem to be exploiting monopoly power for profit...

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