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Only a few countries are teaching children how to think

economist.com

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Re: Only a few countries are teaching children how to think

#81
I was born in Poland and lived there until I turned 24 (I am 35 now). Now living in Australia and having previously lived in other countries, mainly US , contrary to others who comment on the quality of Polish education, I can confirm that thanks to the fact I received it in Poland I am much better off compared to my peers in AU or US. I work in IT now but previously got a teaching degree here in AU and worked in education (high schools) for 3 years. To put it in a nutshell, AU education (probably along with other westernized countries) is an utter joke compared to Polish. What AU kids do at school, irrespective of the level they are in is 3-4 years behind Europe. AU is going strong thanks to its migrants coming mainly from Asia who are slowly replacing typical Australians in high paying white collar jobs. Any kid educated in Asia can run circles around top students here and that is particularly evident during students exchange programs where newcomers cannot believe that learning about fractions and watching cartoons to write compositions or essays is a standard curricular approach. The reason I do not work in education anymore is precisely because I could not stand myself to watch how AU curriculum with a plethora of mickey mouse subjects is dumbbing this generations down (and probably others before it). I am not saying that Polish education was the highlight of my youth and that as a student I didn't hate every day of my life while at school, spent cramming Math and English and many other, seemingly useless subjects. However, seeing what I see now, in hindsight I am so grateful for the fact that it was so bloody hard to be even average student at my school and now that I have 2 kids on my own I feel sorry for the fact that unless I pay premium from the start for a private school, they will never have the same opportunity as I did.

Re: Only a few countries are teaching children how to think

#82
post #15

Most people don't need to think. Thinking isn't necessary to live in today's world.

Although sounding a little bit cynical, there is unfortunately some truth in it: if thinking was important then the smartest people could be found on the highest positions. Clearly that is not the case (with a few exceptions). So we can only conclude that thinking is not of great value and smart people are not really wanted (unless they make cool, nice, shiny toys). It's just a simple observation; the world around us is not based on the smartest solutions.

A documentary I saw about the human brain gave an explanation for this: the brain always looks for the easiest solution because it wants to preserver as much energy as possible (it has already enough to do in the modern world). It is just natural that energy follows the path of the least resistance.

And that is the reason we don't have Plato's State :)

Re: Only a few countries are teaching children how to think

#83

Was I the only one who found no evidence in this article about 'teaching children to think'? There was some discussion about metrics (such as PISA) but that is not, to me, any sort of evidence about the ability to think.

The headline is misleading, but the article itself is more solid in this regard.

In fact, if you want children to be able to think, you shouldn't "teach them to think". You should teach deep knowledge and skills in a particular subject matter context:

"Maths classes tend to be more sophisticated, with lessons that show the often fascinating ways that geometry, trigonometry and calculus work together in the real world. Students forego calculators, having learned how to manipulate numbers in their heads."

High expectations can also be effective:

"Yet his most effective change was also his wooliest: he expected the best work from all of his pupils."

See http://www.aft.org/pdfs/americaneducator/summer2007/Crit_Thi...

Re: Only a few countries are teaching children how to think

#84

Growing up, I declined to participate in the educational system (primarily to avoid harassment at school) and instead spent all of my time learning to program video games at home. So I would sleep through class, go home, and try to write Pong. My academic performance was nonexistent, but I came out of it with a career. I was wondering, was anyone else's childhood experience similar? Highschool felt at best a dungeon,…

You might be interested to read: http://www.paulgraham.com/nerds.html

Re: Only a few countries are teaching children how to think

#85
post #71
post #54

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yet, here you are; following a website with a decent intellectual level and without much effort you are participating in discussions in a language that is foreign to you :-) I have a feeling that although you most likely didn't go to an elite ground school or an elite high school you probably know a second and maybe a third foreign language as well, in high school you could do what Americans would call college level…

"How many Americans know the largest city in Poland?" - how many Europeans know on what continent is Mexico located? Or Kazakhstan (one of the 10 largest countries in the world, for that matter)? Or which Korea is which? Or who was who in the Balkan conflict - that's a bloody and recent war right in Europe. Or does anyone remember that fellow? :) http://youtu.be/SmLwnSXNpFU Sure that's just a random bloke (what about…

The vast majority of European high school graduates would be able to answer all of those questions you posted.

I am neither Polish, nor American, but I have lived in Northern, Southern and Eastern Europe and in the US and the average American knows much less about Europe than vice versa.

Re: Only a few countries are teaching children how to think

#86
post #15

Most people don't need to think. Thinking isn't necessary to live in today's world.

Although sounding a little bit cynical, there is unfortunately some truth in it: if thinking was important then the smartest people could be found on the highest positions. Clearly that is not the case (with a few exceptions). So we can only conclude that thinking is not of great value and smart people are not really wanted (unless they make cool, nice, shiny toys). It's just a simple observation; the world around us…

You make some good points, though I was thinking of something different.

Half of the world is just struggling to get by: job, food / water, security, etc.

Most of the other half doesn't need much thinking either; just try follow a generic life script: go to school, get a job, get married, have kids, die.

Re: Only a few countries are teaching children how to think

#87
I disagree the norm that we don't teach kids to think or our American education sucks. I want to stop comparing education with other countries if possible, but we do this every day anyway. We do teach kids think. I am a Chinese immigrant. I came to US when I was 12 and I am 22 now. I have to say that the American education is quite liberal and most classes I take do ask students to think more critically.

The thing about American classroom is that overall classroom interaction is more decentralized than the Chinese's. In China (specifically HK), you sit in the same classroom with 30-40 people for many years. For example, I can sit with 80% of the people for 6 years during my elementary school (in China, elementary school is 6 years, age 6 to age 12). So you build a strong friendship with a lot of people. You work like a team and solve things like a team for many years. Usually with team effort and strong friendship, students are more likely to produce something interesting - everyone can be honest to each other. You are not shy to tell others your opinion.

This is quite true for school up to junior high in America as one spends every day with students in their homeroom. When you enter HS, you usually don't have that kind of classroom model anymore. You usually see different people in different classes; it's like a college experience to me. For a school with 3000 students, 20/30 people will not appear in my next class.

Now you can still do teamwork, except, team work is with different group of people each time. This has an advantage though: you hear more different opinions. Except people can be shy and skeptical so it's harder to work with.

To me, education is not about score. Sure Russian and Chinese are scoring 98% and Americans are scoring 50%. So what? I don't go to MIT and people around me are genius in their own way. I can't make a good joke and people I know can. Every one has their own strength and own creativity. Teaching children how to think is like making everyone to do the same thing: get 100 on your next math competition.

That's stupid. If you make fewer exams and more on spreading knowledge, let students have more time to rest and play, eventually students will happier and will have more time to think.

When you put emphasis on testing knowledge, you stress students out. I am not saying you don't stress them from time to time - you know, because stress can produce new ideas (think agile and get shit done), but we need to put less on scores. This is why group activity is important. Students in group competitions like sports and robotics (FIRST) are happier. This is why we should go back to HS and help students to organize clubs and events. Or mentor people to do things.

Eventually, kids will figure out. Each of us can come up with some crazy ideas for the next biggest startup. It is just a matter of time.

Inventions don't come in a day. It takes idea, time, dedication, group effort and knowledge.

Re: Only a few countries are teaching children how to think

#88
post #71
post #54

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yet, here you are; following a website with a decent intellectual level and without much effort you are participating in discussions in a language that is foreign to you :-) I have a feeling that although you most likely didn't go to an elite ground school or an elite high school you probably know a second and maybe a third foreign language as well, in high school you could do what Americans would call college level…

"How many Americans know the largest city in Poland?" - how many Europeans know on what continent is Mexico located? Or Kazakhstan (one of the 10 largest countries in the world, for that matter)? Or which Korea is which? Or who was who in the Balkan conflict - that's a bloody and recent war right in Europe. Or does anyone remember that fellow? :) http://youtu.be/SmLwnSXNpFU Sure that's just a random bloke (what about…

Couldn't agree more. I'm also really tired of Polish people thinking they are superior somehow because Americans don't know who's prime minister of Poland (that's quite common).

I've spent two summers in a row in US, WA area, and I've definitely noticed that US college students are very intelligent and knowledgeable about many things.

I've also spend enough time in Poland noticing many people that are quite opposite of that.

So for summary, labeling people in this way doesn't work very well.

Re: Only a few countries are teaching children how to think

#89
post #85
post #71

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"How many Americans know the largest city in Poland?" - how many Europeans know on what continent is Mexico located? Or Kazakhstan (one of the 10 largest countries in the world, for that matter)? Or which Korea is which? Or who was who in the Balkan conflict - that's a bloody and recent war right in Europe. Or does anyone remember that fellow? :) http://youtu.be/SmLwnSXNpFU Sure that's just a random bloke (what about…

The vast majority of European high school graduates would be able to answer all of those questions you posted. I am neither Polish, nor American, but I have lived in Northern, Southern and Eastern Europe and in the US and the average American knows much less about Europe than vice versa.

That might be true, but this is not as symmetrical as you're implying - in my opinion. There is simply more to know about Europe, since it's more diverse, has longer history etc. Also, the US happens to be a global superpower (and the only one nowadays) - no wonder it attracts more attention, and we're all naturally subjected to an influx of facts about it - the impact of its popular culture adding to it. It's, at least to an extent, of the same nature as the fact that we discuss in English now, regardless of what out first languages are.

A more balanced question than the one you suggested would be: does an average European know more about Europe than an average American about the US? :) That's closer competition here.

I lived in England for nearly 6 years and I wasn't exactly impressed by how much they know about continental Europe - let alone these parts of Europe that were on the other side of Iron Curtain.

And speaking of Americans, I'm sure that an average - say - Brazilian doesn't really have much of a clue about Europe either, despite Brazil's historical and cultural ties to Europe. Yet noone is talking about typical Brazilian ignorance and we'd forgive this without batting an eye. Why?

Because we usually know just as little about Brazil, so we are prompt to excuse them :) Not so in case of Americans (US citizens). It's the lack of symmetry that bugs people and provokes hostile reactions.

Re: Only a few countries are teaching children how to think

#90
post #76
post #49

I am Polish, I live in Poland, and I found the article's praise for our education system strange. My opinion of it is much lower. I regularly worry about teaching my children to think for themselves — because I believe this is something the schooling system actively discourages. I also don't think that recent reforms did much to improve education, and I don't see why anyone could think they did. I would approach this…

I have a number of good friends who are teachers, including maths, and they talk about it a lot. While you may not think your system is good, it sounds like the UK system is encouraging mediocrity. For example, when I was at school 20 years ago, we had to memorise formulas for common thing ( speed = distance over time, and similar). Apparently the kids are given the formulas in exams now. There doesn't appear to be s…

I have also memorised the formulas for d/s/t and f/a/p but struggle to see how these translate in to academic excellence of any type, or even why giving them to someone is encouraging mediocrity.

There is (imho) nothing of value in memorizing simple formulas, and everything in the value of knowing how and when to apply those formulas, or where to Google for them.

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