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Because it needs to be said

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Re: Because it needs to be said

#141

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There are two men, one of whom stopped it, who corroborate her story: http://theotherzach.com/writes/2013/10/9/events and http://blog.matt-darby.com/essays/i-am-the-other-developer

Interesting. She actually lay on the bar AFTER he had his hand on her butt. That's a bit different to her account. Also, she failed to mention the "chomping on her breast". Silly girl.

[deleted]

Re: Because it needs to be said

#142

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There are two men, one of whom stopped it, who corroborate her story: http://theotherzach.com/writes/2013/10/9/events and http://blog.matt-darby.com/essays/i-am-the-other-developer

Interesting. She actually lay on the bar AFTER he had his hand on her butt. That's a bit different to her account. Also, she failed to mention the "chomping on her breast". Silly girl.

No action taken by a person entitles others to sexually assault them. There is no such thing as "advance consent".

Please stop perpetuating this poisonous meme.

Re: Because it needs to be said

#143

My ex-girlfriend wrote a blog post similar to this one, accusing me of sexual assault. I volunteered to take a police polygraph test, hired a lawyer and initiated a libel suit. Fortunately, I didn’t need to go further because she suddenly changed my name & her story. But the experience was still stressful and scary. Many commenters vilified me because they assumed her information was true. Prior to being falsely accu…

posting your personal account of someone's crimes against you in a blog is not a fair or reasonable way to deal with what is clearly a very serious matter. it sounds like what happened was awful and these types of incidents are common in many predominantly male professions, e.g. law, finance.

i was recently seriously harassed and more-or-less sexually assaulted by an acquaintance's wife at a wedding in a swimming pool. as a man, i doubt that any police department would take me seriously if i wanted to press charges. this does not mean that i am going to take to the internet and post my account of it. nobody wins by doing this.

this trend of women posting their account of a sexual assault online is alarming because of what hawkharris describes: it could be false and then is plastered all over the net, irrevocably damaging the reputation of the accused.

Re: Because it needs to be said

#144

Earlier quoted context omitted.

According to the story, the other person involved was allowed to leave the company, saying it was his own decision. Nobody forced him to blog about it. He, however, chose to take the topic of his leaving the company public, in a way that one can easily see would sound like derision to somebody who was a victim of assault: http://objo.com/2013/01/31/funemployment/ So now it's internet mob behaviour if she posts her si…

Last time I checked there was this thing called "due process". There were two witnesses to the alleged assault and I say alleged because in the eyes of the law it is alleged until tried in a court, and you are an idiot if you don't know this. You don't even know if the assault happened and you are judging this man without a trial. You are a a goddamn imbecile. There were two witnesses, that's pretty clear cut. His bl…

This isn't really an appropriate tone to take on this site (or anywhere really). You also seem to be reading all kinds of things that weren't written in the parent comment. Please be more civil.

Re: Because it needs to be said

#145
post #106
post #103

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The problem is that ENTIRE PROFESSIONAL COMMUNITIES "drink a lot, often". Not hanging out is mutex with a top-notch career. I go and drink one drink and then switch to soda. But don't pretend that it's only some subset of the US tech industry.

I refuse to accept that as a norm. And you already proved the exception by suggesting you can just drink soda and no-one thinks any less of you.

Often, people will think less of you. I have a 'straightedge' tattoo on my back, and even though I'd go to bars, never mention it, and just drink Coke, others felt that by not drinking I was judging them. I lost friends over it.

I drink now. Possibly too much.

Re: Because it needs to be said

#147
post #141

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Interesting. She actually lay on the bar AFTER he had his hand on her butt. That's a bit different to her account. Also, she failed to mention the "chomping on her breast". Silly girl.

[deleted]

Hey, ally: try educating instead of ad hominem. It works better.

Re: Because it needs to be said

#148
post #129

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The fact that there are bad actors that game the system does not mean we should not publicize reports of bad behavior. Rape is, at present, more of a problem to our society than false rape accusations. Perhaps that will change in the future. I hope it does.

I really don't want to get pulled into an argument on this because I've said what I mean to say, but your second sentence is really bold.

The fact that you think that statement is bold says a lot about how far we are from solving it and helping people.

Re: Because it needs to be said

#149
post #129

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The fact that there are bad actors that game the system does not mean we should not publicize reports of bad behavior. Rape is, at present, more of a problem to our society than false rape accusations. Perhaps that will change in the future. I hope it does.

I really don't want to get pulled into an argument on this because I've said what I mean to say, but your second sentence is really bold.

There is a lot of conflicting research on this, but many reports show that false rape accusations are no more common than false accusations of any other kind of crime.

It's a very difficult topic to study.

Re: Because it needs to be said

#150

One thing we can all do: Start asking before you touch in situations where you know you don't have to. I know it's awkward. But the reason people like Joe think they can put their hands down someone's pants is because we don't have a cultural practice of "ask first". They see you put your arms around that friend of yours who doesn't mind at all, and they think "Ah, cool... so you can just sense if she's cool with it…

Start asking before you touch in situations where you know you don't have to.

I think this is based on incorrect understanding of the real cause of the problem. The problem was not the lack of knowledge about the fact that she was not consenting - it was clearly apparent to everybody else, she did not need to verbalize it. The problem was that he was not able to perceive her obvious signals or did not care about them or was not able to control himself. Therefore we need men who have empathy, respect for other people and self-control. Men like that do not need to ruin intimate moments asking weird questions. Men who are not like that ignore even clear no, verbal or nonverbal. That's the problem - the lack of empathy, respect, self-control. Not getting hammered might be important part of solving that. The rest is more complicated - how can society support personal growth and maturity?

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