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Because it needs to be said

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131–140 of 635 posts

Re: Because it needs to be said

#131

Post by gmjosack »

beams_of_light wrote: post #101
konstruktor wrote: post #31

We have a culture of alcohol being involved in most team interactions outside of work. Those mostly take place in the evening, a time when, usually, private socializing, including mate seeking behaviour, happens. That alone would be quite a fertile ground for sexual harassment, if you add a few females to a group mostly consisting of men. Then add companies where people work long hours and have little life outside of…

Agreed. Years ago, I might not have been able to sympathize with her very well, but I have daughters of my own now, and I cringe at the thoughts of things the future males in their lives will do. It's easy to see women as sex objects, but having daughters really opens your eyes to their humanity; that their hopes and dreams mean just at much as ours.

It seems strange to me that one would need to have daughters to realize women have hopes and dreams as meaningful as a man's...

Re: Because it needs to be said

#133

Post by sneak »

tunesmith wrote: post #130

Completely beside the larger point of assault, I am just frankly amazed at the seemingly unanimous defense (in the three blog writeups) of the level of drinking that happens in these atmospheres. It really does read as if people are saying, look, people should be able to get shitfaced drunk every night at a professional conference without having to worry. And... well gosh maybe that's true in theory , but... isn't th…

Brogrammers are legion. It gets marginally better outside of the ruby/js/node scenes.

Re: Because it needs to be said

#134

Post by exodust »

steveklabnik wrote: post #107
kenster07 wrote: post #95

The story is heart wrenching, but the fact is, it may not be true. Anyone can literally say anything they want about someone and the internet will believe it without a moment's hesitation. It is downright scary. If you were the accused and the story was contrived, you would not have much recourse.

There are two men, one of whom stopped it, who corroborate her story: http://theotherzach.com/writes/2013/10/9/events and http://blog.matt-darby.com/essays/i-am-the-other-developer

Interesting. She actually lay on the bar AFTER he had his hand on her butt. That's a bit different to her account. Also, she failed to mention the "chomping on her breast".

Silly girl.

Re: Because it needs to be said

#135

Post by steveklabnik »

sliverstorm wrote: post #122
steveklabnik wrote: post #112

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes. The relevant concept, as much as I _hate_ to link to wikipedia: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Psychological_trauma As well as http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rape_trauma_syndrome

To be clear, I understand & am familiar with those concepts. I'm just... I don't want to put it in terms of comparison, but that's all I've got- shocked & confused that an event that I would expect to be less traumatic than rape, is seeming to impact the victim in ways much more dramatic than any recounting from a rape victim I can remember. Again, I hate to put it in terms of comparison. There's no competition here.…

From the outside, it may not seem to be as bad as rape. But the crime, psychologically, is fundamentally the same: it's about having autonomy over your body. The only difference is degree.

> than any recounting from a rape victim I can remember.

I don't know you, but consider that you probably don't know a representative sample of rape and/or sexual assault victims, and therefore, your experiences may not reflect overall reality.

Furthermore, humans are incredibly different. To make an almost non-sequitur comparison, I don't particularly feel tattoos hurt a lot. I know some people who scream and cry after ten minutes. Everyone will react to some kind of trauma in a different fashion.

Re: Because it needs to be said

#137

Post by pearjuice »

So she voluntarily lied down on a bar with her and men around her intoxicated by alcohol, hormones amplified and expecting nothing out of the usual to happen? Get real, please. Of course it is horrible but don't make it look like it was unexpected.

Re: Because it needs to be said

#138

Post by sneak »

adamnemecek wrote: post #132

Stopped reading at 'trigger warnings'.

I dislike the idea that anyone is obligated to provide trigger warnings, too, but the post has important data in it.

Also, don't be so snarky for the sake of being snarky. Productive snark is okay.

Re: Because it needs to be said

#139

Post by steveklabnik »

kenster07 wrote: post #124
steveklabnik wrote: post #107

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There are two men, one of whom stopped it, who corroborate her story: http://theotherzach.com/writes/2013/10/9/events and http://blog.matt-darby.com/essays/i-am-the-other-developer

I appreciate that, and if the story is true, I hope the perpetrator suffers the consequences. But we are not the jury here, as fun as it may be. We should not try to ruin someone's life in such a fickle forum.

Absolutely nothing about this is 'fun'.

Re: Because it needs to be said

#140

Post by throwaway86 »

sneak wrote: post #129
throwaway86 wrote: post #93

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And yet frighteningly effective; here's an anecdote that includes a thought exercise to consider, and let me preface the thought exercise by making clear that I am not accusing anyone of lying in the situation linked here and intentionally have no opinion on it, for reasons that shall become clear. (In fact, I wish I hadn't read it.) Let's introduce Bob (not his real name). Bob is a mid-level engineering manager. Sin…

The fact that there are bad actors that game the system does not mean we should not publicize reports of bad behavior. Rape is, at present, more of a problem to our society than false rape accusations. Perhaps that will change in the future. I hope it does.

I really don't want to get pulled into an argument on this because I've said what I mean to say, but your second sentence is really bold.
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