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Formula 1′s Leading Team Has a Big Secret

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Re: Formula 1′s Leading Team Has a Big Secret

#171

Post by k-mcgrady »

cmsimike wrote: post #144
k-mcgrady wrote: post #39

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That wouldn't work. Firstly the smaller teams would be gone as they couldn't afford to compete. It's also likely a lot of the mid-field teams would struggle to afford to compete (Lotus, one of the top 5 teams can't even pay it's top driver). Secondly your qualification 'as long as it doesn't make it unsafe' is one of the reasons there are so many rules in F1. It's an incredibly dangerous sport. The engineers could ea…

I would love to see that elusive budget cap implemented but if that were to happen, I would want to ease the technological limitations. Imagine the kind of innovation if you were free to do what you want up to a max of X million/year.

I agree, but I don't think a budget cap would be easily enforceable which is why - after years of talking about it - it has never been implemented.

Re: Formula 1′s Leading Team Has a Big Secret

#172

Post by sliverstorm »

specialist wrote: post #161
simias wrote: post #112

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think that's a good thing honestly, instead of being only an arms race for the team that will make the most expensive car they have to be very clever in finding ways to shave a few milliseconds in each lap. I see that like code golf or the IOCCC, the constraints are what makes it interesting and challenging. In the case of F1 I think it's also about keeping the human factor, without regulations I'm sure by now we'd…

I favor having an unlimited tier for all sports. Anything (safe) goes. I think it would reduce cheating. Then I wouldn't care if the pros are using robots, steroids, time travel, whatever. And there's still plenty of competition for amateurs all the way up. I grew up watching hydroplane racing. The local races were super fun. Much like going to local drag races. But watching H1 Unlimited Racing was ecstasy. http://en…

I favor having an unlimited tier for all sports. Anything (safe) goes.

That's the problem. F1 cars that travel 500mph are not safe.

Re: Formula 1′s Leading Team Has a Big Secret

#173

Post by thwest »

ronaldx wrote: post #32
brey wrote: post #7

In an environment where innovation has been strictly regulated against (better engine management software? NOPE. better foil design? NOPE), the fine art of sticking to the letter of the law but totally bending the spirit of it is naturally where the bleeding edge of F1 design is going to lie.

Much the same in cycling - there are many innovations that could potentially improve speeds: as a simple example, recumbent cycles are faster under many conditions. But, the UCI sets its rules based on innovations up to 1972, in order to make a fair comparison with Eddy Merckx. Consumer bikes surely suffer for this lack of innovation at race level.

Recumbents aren't ever going to be popular racing bikes. Fighting aerodynamic drag is a huge source of tactics and race dynamics that the races would be quite boring without. Recumbents are also laughable going up hills.

Re: Formula 1′s Leading Team Has a Big Secret

#174

Post by ericcumbee »

001sky wrote: post #51
7952 wrote: post #38

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I would argue that it was more entertaining before it was made safe through technological advancements. It would be interesting to see a series that used self driving cars that could take more risks.

Self driving cars doesn't sound like a sport, tho.

I would really be interested to see a self driving car at Le Mans as a Garage 53 Project.

Re: Formula 1′s Leading Team Has a Big Secret

#175

Post by ericcumbee »

ajays wrote: post #157
simias wrote: post #112

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think that's a good thing honestly, instead of being only an arms race for the team that will make the most expensive car they have to be very clever in finding ways to shave a few milliseconds in each lap. I see that like code golf or the IOCCC, the constraints are what makes it interesting and challenging. In the case of F1 I think it's also about keeping the human factor, without regulations I'm sure by now we'd…

But it stifles innovation. A better solution (IMHO, and since I'm not a big follower of F-1 or racing in general, this is basically me talking out of my rear end) would be to, at the end of the year, share the designs and software with each other.

Designs and software while it might help. It's having people that understand the technology. I read an article that Porsche has been trying to poach engineers from F1 and Audi's Le Mans program that have experience with Hybrid Drive Systems. They said that there are only maybe 10-15 people in the entire world that truly understand Hybrid Energy Recovery systems for racing applications.

Re: Formula 1′s Leading Team Has a Big Secret

#176

Post by walshemj »

jackgavigan wrote: post #114
davej wrote: post #56

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I appreciate the comparison but it's really not "much the same". Modern F1 cars are much much better (not just faster) than they were in 1972. The strict technical regulations are in place for two main reasons: 1. To allow teams with smaller budgets to compete. 2. To focus innovation away from simply making bigger, more powerful engines with computers managing every facet of driver input and car output. That kind of…

> 1. To allow teams with smaller budgets to compete. There's a far better way to help the smaller teams: Split the sport's revenues more equally. Under the current regime, the top teams receive many times the amount the smallest teams do (e.g. more than a 9x difference between what the Constructors' Champion receives and the paltry $10m the bottom two teams are given) - http://www.hindustantimes.com/Images/Popup/2012…

Not sure the premiership is a good model it sucks all of the money away from the lower divisions.

The premiership also has been trying to wall its self off from the other clubs so that they dont have relegation - unlike the NFL the worst performing teams get relegated which keeps the teams honest to an extent.

Re: Formula 1′s Leading Team Has a Big Secret

#177

Post by krmmalik »

TillE wrote: post #23
ye wrote: post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

When one guy leads by 30+ seconds, while everyone else fights for fractions of a second, either there's a major breakthrough or somebody is cheating.

Vettel has won races by large margins before, without any accusations of cheating. The time difference of ONE LAP is under a second, but that adds up over the course of an entire race. Red Bull have the best car, Vettel is the best driver, they do the fastest pit stops, and with a little luck this creates big wins.

In Hamilton's last season at Maclaren (when there car was very competitive), he said more than once "they're definitely doing something with that car".

It's been stated more than once by more than one person that Alonso is "the best driver in F1 at the moment, pound for pound". In addition to that, Vettel doesn't have the fastest time on the Top Gear Track (not that it's the ultimate test of a great driver) - but to say that Vettel is the best driver in F1 right now is mis-guided. He most certainly isn't. What would be correct to say is that he has the best car. Now whether that is because of some sort of traction control or not; I don't know. But needless to say, he's not winning races based on pure talent alone.

Re: Formula 1′s Leading Team Has a Big Secret

#178

Post by zonkey »

swamp40 wrote: post #149
zonkey wrote: post #80

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Wouldn't it be even more of an engineering battle if the drivers were replaced with computers?

There will certainly be a driverless racing circuit one day. Soon, if Google's automatic cars ever become available. It will probably start out as an underground thing.

That would be great. Though, it probably wouldn't be as popular. People like to see people compete. It would be fun to program one of those things.

Re: Formula 1′s Leading Team Has a Big Secret

#179

Post by walshemj »

thwest wrote: post #173
ronaldx wrote: post #32

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Much the same in cycling - there are many innovations that could potentially improve speeds: as a simple example, recumbent cycles are faster under many conditions. But, the UCI sets its rules based on innovations up to 1972, in order to make a fair comparison with Eddy Merckx. Consumer bikes surely suffer for this lack of innovation at race level.

Recumbents aren't ever going to be popular racing bikes. Fighting aerodynamic drag is a huge source of tactics and race dynamics that the races would be quite boring without. Recumbents are also laughable going up hills.

Yes can't see a recumbent working on the Hors catégorie climbs.

Re: Formula 1′s Leading Team Has a Big Secret

#180

Post by dockd »

ronaldx wrote: post #32
brey wrote: post #7

In an environment where innovation has been strictly regulated against (better engine management software? NOPE. better foil design? NOPE), the fine art of sticking to the letter of the law but totally bending the spirit of it is naturally where the bleeding edge of F1 design is going to lie.

Much the same in cycling - there are many innovations that could potentially improve speeds: as a simple example, recumbent cycles are faster under many conditions. But, the UCI sets its rules based on innovations up to 1972, in order to make a fair comparison with Eddy Merckx. Consumer bikes surely suffer for this lack of innovation at race level.

That's for road bikes. I don't know what the UCI says about mountain bikes, but since their introduction in the 80s, we've gone to clipless pedals, front and then rear suspension, 29" and 27.5" tires, disc brakes.
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