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Formula 1′s Leading Team Has a Big Secret

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Re: Formula 1′s Leading Team Has a Big Secret

#71

Post by bliti »

davej wrote: post #56
ronaldx wrote: post #32

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Much the same in cycling - there are many innovations that could potentially improve speeds: as a simple example, recumbent cycles are faster under many conditions. But, the UCI sets its rules based on innovations up to 1972, in order to make a fair comparison with Eddy Merckx. Consumer bikes surely suffer for this lack of innovation at race level.

I appreciate the comparison but it's really not "much the same". Modern F1 cars are much much better (not just faster) than they were in 1972. The strict technical regulations are in place for two main reasons: 1. To allow teams with smaller budgets to compete. 2. To focus innovation away from simply making bigger, more powerful engines with computers managing every facet of driver input and car output. That kind of…

Like the use of carbon fiber, active dynamic suspensions, aerodynamics that improve fuel consumption, stronger alloys, etc.

Re: Formula 1′s Leading Team Has a Big Secret

#72

Post by garethadams »

davej wrote: post #56
ronaldx wrote: post #32

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Much the same in cycling - there are many innovations that could potentially improve speeds: as a simple example, recumbent cycles are faster under many conditions. But, the UCI sets its rules based on innovations up to 1972, in order to make a fair comparison with Eddy Merckx. Consumer bikes surely suffer for this lack of innovation at race level.

I appreciate the comparison but it's really not "much the same". Modern F1 cars are much much better (not just faster) than they were in 1972. The strict technical regulations are in place for two main reasons: 1. To allow teams with smaller budgets to compete. 2. To focus innovation away from simply making bigger, more powerful engines with computers managing every facet of driver input and car output. That kind of…

3. Safety

Re: Formula 1′s Leading Team Has a Big Secret

#73

Post by uptown »

bliti wrote: post #60
ye wrote: post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

When one guy leads by 30+ seconds, while everyone else fights for fractions of a second, either there's a major breakthrough or somebody is cheating.

It can't be cheating if they pass inspections. Developing an advantage is not something to be punished for. This is racing after all.

"It can't be cheating if they pass inspections."

Same goes for Lance Armstrong, right?

Re: Formula 1′s Leading Team Has a Big Secret

#74

Post by mcroft »

mjpa wrote: post #53
TillE wrote: post #23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Vettel has won races by large margins before, without any accusations of cheating. The time difference of ONE LAP is under a second, but that adds up over the course of an entire race. Red Bull have the best car, Vettel is the best driver, they do the fastest pit stops, and with a little luck this creates big wins.

A 30s gap over an entire race isn't that big of a deal, Hamilton won the 2008 British GP by over a minute but that was changeable conditions. Watch the first lap of any race and see the gap Vettel builds in a single gap, it has hovered around 2 seconds for many races...

I think it was Singapore where a safety car blew out Vettel's advantage and the pack caught up. Obviously tyre wear was very low in that period, so the team told him to put his foot down, at which point he again managed to increase the gap by about 2s per lap to the point where he had gained back an entire pit stop. Even with a favourable track, I'm sure those in the paddock can't help thinking of the similarities with the 1994 season. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1994_Formula_One_cheating_contr...

Re: Formula 1′s Leading Team Has a Big Secret

#75

Post by brey »

001sky wrote: post #51
7952 wrote: post #38

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I would argue that it was more entertaining before it was made safe through technological advancements. It would be interesting to see a series that used self driving cars that could take more risks.

Self driving cars doesn't sound like a sport, tho.

an entirely remote controlled (as opposed to autonomous) car race could be fun to watch - can go much faster, risks of huge crashes are acceptable (or desirable...)

Re: Formula 1′s Leading Team Has a Big Secret

#76

Post by hvidgaard »

chiph wrote: post #57

the RB9 could limit power when compressed and boost power when expanded Isn't that backwards? If you're light on the suspension, that means you have less grip, and thus less traction.

You do not want to floor the pedal while still getting out of the corner. The side way force means you have less grip for forward motion, and too much torque to the tires and they will spin.

Re: Formula 1′s Leading Team Has a Big Secret

#77

Post by eitland »

zalew wrote: post #67
7952 wrote: post #38

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I would argue that it was more entertaining before it was made safe through technological advancements. It would be interesting to see a series that used self driving cars that could take more risks.

> It would be interesting to see a series that used self driving cars how exactly would that be interesting?

In the same way as other robot competitions.

Re: Formula 1′s Leading Team Has a Big Secret

#78

Post by mafro »

k-mcgrady wrote: post #39
rwmj wrote: post #33

I think they should just let the teams use whatever technology they can invent, as long as it doesn't make it unsafe. Who cares how good the drivers are? The technology is far more interesting.

That wouldn't work. Firstly the smaller teams would be gone as they couldn't afford to compete. It's also likely a lot of the mid-field teams would struggle to afford to compete (Lotus, one of the top 5 teams can't even pay it's top driver). Secondly your qualification 'as long as it doesn't make it unsafe' is one of the reasons there are so many rules in F1. It's an incredibly dangerous sport. The engineers could ea…

Making the cars go fast has never been the issue. Making them slow down however is quite a different thing. :)

Re: Formula 1′s Leading Team Has a Big Secret

#79

Post by bullsbarry »

wtvanhest wrote: post #68
polymatter wrote: post #25

Earlier quoted context omitted.

when its no longer entertaining

For those that enjoy bicycle racing, check out motorcycle racing. For those that like gocart racing, check out NASCAR (seriously, check it out if you haven't). The number of fans that want to see the top technology vastly outnumber the number of fans that want to see the more limited tech. At this point, most of the limitations are for safety. It seems like a good idea to allow innovation if it is available to all at…

NASCAR is a terrible example in this case. I'm not what you would call a huge fan of the sport, but I did work for the organization for a while and the racing itself is very much not "top technology". In fact, many would say the appeal is in the restrictions placed on the technology allowed for the teams.

Re: Formula 1′s Leading Team Has a Big Secret

#80

Post by zonkey »

kyro wrote: post #15

I love that this is really a cutthroat battle of engineering. Behind every driver there's a team of really bright individuals who are brainstorming, modeling, designing, tweaking, and refitting, to figure out just how Red Bull's doing it.

Wouldn't it be even more of an engineering battle if the drivers were replaced with computers?
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