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Formula 1′s Leading Team Has a Big Secret

wired.com

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Re: Formula 1′s Leading Team Has a Big Secret

#141

Post by jongala »

bowlofpetunias wrote: post #89

As a fan of the sport, I've so far only read about this unsubstantiated conspiracy theory on forums and low-end blogs. Wired adds no new insights, no facts, no sources, not even new speculative theories, it just rehashes old gossip. Fuck, this is one step down from Gawker. I'm so glad I stopped taken Wired seriously since the 90's.

At least they didn't reprint the obviously-sarcastic comments that Vettel made in interviews, which Jalopnik put in their article. As far as the tech goes, it is a total rehash of Racecar Engineering's work, but Wired has a very different audience so that isn't such a waste. I think their reasoning is flawed as to why it would be kept from Webber — the money argument doesn't smell right to me — but at least they added something to the discussion that I haven't seen fleshed out elsewhere.

Re: Formula 1′s Leading Team Has a Big Secret

#142

Post by ahlatimer »

GVIrish wrote: post #122
wtvanhest wrote: post #68

Earlier quoted context omitted.

For those that enjoy bicycle racing, check out motorcycle racing. For those that like gocart racing, check out NASCAR (seriously, check it out if you haven't). The number of fans that want to see the top technology vastly outnumber the number of fans that want to see the more limited tech. At this point, most of the limitations are for safety. It seems like a good idea to allow innovation if it is available to all at…

The number of fans that want to see the top technology vastly outnumber the number of fans that want to see the more limited tech. All things being equal, fans would like to see more advanced technology on the ractrack. But the reality is that the more degrees of technical freedom in the rules, the more expensive it will be to compete, and the less close the racing will be. NASCAR for instance is very restricted tech…

> If you made Formula 1 totally unlimited you'd have gaps so big that there'd never be a question of who would win barring a crash.

Which is largely true today during the Vettel era and was largely true during the Schumacher era. People still watch it.

Re: Formula 1′s Leading Team Has a Big Secret

#143

Post by swamp40 »

Regarding the mysterious hidden traction control that no one can find.

How about a modified wireless air pressure sensor inside the tires that also reported tire slippage?

Then perhaps that slippage info gets received by electronics built into the drivers shoes?

Then the millisecond acceleration and braking is controlled by actuators inside the shoes that hit the pedals, faster than any human can and using instant, actionable slippage data.

When the driver walks away, nothing unusual can be found on the car when it is presented for inspection.

Re: Formula 1′s Leading Team Has a Big Secret

#144

Post by cmsimike »

k-mcgrady wrote: post #39
rwmj wrote: post #33

I think they should just let the teams use whatever technology they can invent, as long as it doesn't make it unsafe. Who cares how good the drivers are? The technology is far more interesting.

That wouldn't work. Firstly the smaller teams would be gone as they couldn't afford to compete. It's also likely a lot of the mid-field teams would struggle to afford to compete (Lotus, one of the top 5 teams can't even pay it's top driver). Secondly your qualification 'as long as it doesn't make it unsafe' is one of the reasons there are so many rules in F1. It's an incredibly dangerous sport. The engineers could ea…

I would love to see that elusive budget cap implemented but if that were to happen, I would want to ease the technological limitations.

Imagine the kind of innovation if you were free to do what you want up to a max of X million/year.

Re: Formula 1′s Leading Team Has a Big Secret

#145

Post by ahlatimer »

beat wrote: post #127
zonkey wrote: post #80

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Wouldn't it be even more of an engineering battle if the drivers were replaced with computers?

A lot of NASCAR fans argue that F1 is just that - driving skill has been replaced by technology. I think that's nonsense. Better cars are an advantage, but ultimately, it's the driver's nerve and imagination that wins. I'd choose a lesser car with a greater driver any day.

I wouldn't. Not in F1, at least. Not if you wanted to regularly come in the points. You could stick Vettel in a Marussia, and he'd still finish near the back of the pack.

Re: Formula 1′s Leading Team Has a Big Secret

#146

Post by robryan »

GVIrish wrote: post #126
TillE wrote: post #14

The smeary tone of this article is really quite obvious and unpleasant, and I don't think qualifying it as a "conspiracy theory" makes up for that. For example the claim that "Christian Horner isn’t saying much", when in fact he's flatly denied any kind of rule breaking.

If Red Bull is indeed cheating, Christian Horner would be a fool to come out and admit it. Cheating with traction control has been a problem in multiple forms of motorsport for a long time. It's difficult to prove, so by and large, teams that were cheating with it have just denied it flat out. Red Bull is definitely violating the spirit of the rules, it's just a question of will the FIA come down on them or clarify t…

They would be stupid to do anything that was flat outside the rules, they just don't need to to get wins.

Re: Formula 1′s Leading Team Has a Big Secret

#147

Post by swamp40 »

Zigurd wrote: post #101

My theory is that they implemented an equivalent to traction control, but with no sensors at the wheel. It's all internal to the KERS, and probably a software hack. For example, if a drop in current from the KERS indicates the motor/generator needs less power even though the throttle is open, you might be able to infer wheel-spin without measuring it directly, and momentarily shut down the KERS to reduce power to the…

I think you are probably right.

Your theory is getting some press, too: http://www.f1sa.com/index.php?option=com_content&view=articl...

Re: Formula 1′s Leading Team Has a Big Secret

#148

Post by emhs »

pilsetnieks wrote: post #115
emhs wrote: post #105

Earlier quoted context omitted.

E.g. the Robert Downey Jr movie where he controls a fighting robot. Bigger and nastier risks allowed than human boxing. I still haven't seen that, though...

That's Hugh Jackman, the movie's called "Real Steel". Not to confuse with the Robert Downey Jr. movie series where he controls a fighting robot that he occasionally is inside of.

This is what I get for commenting about movies I haven't seen yet.

Re: Formula 1′s Leading Team Has a Big Secret

#149

Post by swamp40 »

zonkey wrote: post #80
kyro wrote: post #15

I love that this is really a cutthroat battle of engineering. Behind every driver there's a team of really bright individuals who are brainstorming, modeling, designing, tweaking, and refitting, to figure out just how Red Bull's doing it.

Wouldn't it be even more of an engineering battle if the drivers were replaced with computers?

There will certainly be a driverless racing circuit one day.

Soon, if Google's automatic cars ever become available.

It will probably start out as an underground thing.

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