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Formula 1′s Leading Team Has a Big Secret

wired.com

151–160 of 253 posts

Re: Formula 1′s Leading Team Has a Big Secret

#151
post #32
post #7

In an environment where innovation has been strictly regulated against (better engine management software? NOPE. better foil design? NOPE), the fine art of sticking to the letter of the law but totally bending the spirit of it is naturally where the bleeding edge of F1 design is going to lie.

Much the same in cycling - there are many innovations that could potentially improve speeds: as a simple example, recumbent cycles are faster under many conditions. But, the UCI sets its rules based on innovations up to 1972, in order to make a fair comparison with Eddy Merckx. Consumer bikes surely suffer for this lack of innovation at race level.

"recumbent cycles are faster under many conditions"

Is this demonstrably true under less than ideal conditions? I have been a cyclist for almost four decades and for a good three of those recumbent bicycles have been touted as faster and better. Yet I have never been passed by a recumbent. Not once. Ever. I have on the other hand passed many, though admittedly there are few on the road and usually ridden by old farts (to which I a rapidly becoming one). I understand that if you put an enclosure around a recumbent and run it on salt flats, you will hit a higher top speed. How does it fair in the Alps? In a crowded city with tight turns? It has always seemed to me that the recumbent position is countered by both the ability to stand up and put weight on the pedals for speed/acceleration and having a shorter wheel base while being on a taller pivot for handling.

Re: Formula 1′s Leading Team Has a Big Secret

#152
post #91

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes? I'm not a cycling fan, but I consider doping and attempts to evade detection fundamental to the sport. _Every rider is doping_, some are just better at it.

That's an interesting angle. I've heard the argument for allowing athletes to take and do whatever they want to improve their physical performance. The best argument against that approach that I've heard is that if you allow a virtual free-for-all in terms of performance-enhancing drugs, then you're essentially requiring every participant to assume the risks associated with taking those drugs. Not doing so means they…

You don't think everyone is doping to some degree as it is? I find that hard to believe. I think everyone at high level competition is enhancing.

So I support the notion that high level performance sports should allow performance enhancing drugs. That's what everyone is doing anyway. The way it is right now you not only have to enhance, and be great, but you also have to be a great cheater (i.e. not get caught doping). I don't like systems that give advantages to the best cheater.

Re: Formula 1′s Leading Team Has a Big Secret

#153
post #120
post #112

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think that's a good thing honestly, instead of being only an arms race for the team that will make the most expensive car they have to be very clever in finding ways to shave a few milliseconds in each lap. I see that like code golf or the IOCCC, the constraints are what makes it interesting and challenging. In the case of F1 I think it's also about keeping the human factor, without regulations I'm sure by now we'd…

it is a good thing. it's the same fundamental reason that we ban steroids from athletics. but human ingenuity being what it is, we shouldn't be surprised that people come up with new ways to bend the rules ... be that 'not-technically-traction-control traction control' or subtly altered performance-enhancing drugs the governing body's not had time to ban yet.

> it's the same fundamental reason that we ban steroids from athletics.

It's not the same thing at all. Horrible analogy.

Re: Formula 1′s Leading Team Has a Big Secret

#154
post #100

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As a non-fan of the sport, this story sounds exciting. Clearly something interesting is happening in the F1 scene, and nobody knows for sure what it is. It's a great mystery. Even if this story is a rehash of what has been already said in F1 fan blogs, it is very accessible to people who know little about the sport. Journalism is about so much more than pure facts.

"As a non-fan of the sport, this story sounds exciting. Clearly something interesting is happening in the F1 scene, and nobody knows for sure what it is. It's a great mystery." This is the case most of the time whether it's a new design, or political. That's F1.

The point isn't that it is or isn't interesting the point is that Wired is bringing an intriguing technical story to a population who wouldn't normally care.

Re: Formula 1′s Leading Team Has a Big Secret

#155
post #80

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Wouldn't it be even more of an engineering battle if the drivers were replaced with computers?

There will certainly be a driverless racing circuit one day. Soon, if Google's automatic cars ever become available. It will probably start out as an underground thing.

Well the closest today is the DARPA Grand Challenge http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/DARPA_Grand_Challenge.

Re: Formula 1′s Leading Team Has a Big Secret

#156
post #32

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Much the same in cycling - there are many innovations that could potentially improve speeds: as a simple example, recumbent cycles are faster under many conditions. But, the UCI sets its rules based on innovations up to 1972, in order to make a fair comparison with Eddy Merckx. Consumer bikes surely suffer for this lack of innovation at race level.

This is wrong on two important levels: - the UCI limits bicycles so that it's a race between cyclists, not bank accounts. Currently, a top pro's bike costs about $10-15k, and a competitive bike can be bought for as low as $2-3k (even lower at the amateur level). If they removed the technical limitations, that number would be at least an order of magnitude higher, and potentially two or three. - bike races are not jus…

I agree on the expense and corresponding lack of competitors in the America's Cup but those catamarans when up on the hydrofoils were mesmerizing to watch. I have watched many America's Cups over the years and was a bit apprehensive about another year of cats as I usually prefer a classic monohull but after this cup I'm not so sure...

Re: Formula 1′s Leading Team Has a Big Secret

#157
post #112
post #7

In an environment where innovation has been strictly regulated against (better engine management software? NOPE. better foil design? NOPE), the fine art of sticking to the letter of the law but totally bending the spirit of it is naturally where the bleeding edge of F1 design is going to lie.

I think that's a good thing honestly, instead of being only an arms race for the team that will make the most expensive car they have to be very clever in finding ways to shave a few milliseconds in each lap. I see that like code golf or the IOCCC, the constraints are what makes it interesting and challenging. In the case of F1 I think it's also about keeping the human factor, without regulations I'm sure by now we'd…

But it stifles innovation. A better solution (IMHO, and since I'm not a big follower of F-1 or racing in general, this is basically me talking out of my rear end) would be to, at the end of the year, share the designs and software with each other.

Re: Formula 1′s Leading Team Has a Big Secret

#158
From http://www.formula1.com/inside_f1/understanding_the_sport/87...

How is the stored energy released by the driver? The regulations stipulate that the release must be completely under the driver’s control. There is a boost button on the steering wheel which can be pressed by the driver.

Is it really OK to let suspension system to control the releasing of boost power?

Re: Formula 1′s Leading Team Has a Big Secret

#159
post #157
post #112

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think that's a good thing honestly, instead of being only an arms race for the team that will make the most expensive car they have to be very clever in finding ways to shave a few milliseconds in each lap. I see that like code golf or the IOCCC, the constraints are what makes it interesting and challenging. In the case of F1 I think it's also about keeping the human factor, without regulations I'm sure by now we'd…

But it stifles innovation. A better solution (IMHO, and since I'm not a big follower of F-1 or racing in general, this is basically me talking out of my rear end) would be to, at the end of the year, share the designs and software with each other.

"Here's my design. It costs $10 billions to build. See you next year!"

Re: Formula 1′s Leading Team Has a Big Secret

#160
post #32

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Much the same in cycling - there are many innovations that could potentially improve speeds: as a simple example, recumbent cycles are faster under many conditions. But, the UCI sets its rules based on innovations up to 1972, in order to make a fair comparison with Eddy Merckx. Consumer bikes surely suffer for this lack of innovation at race level.

This is wrong on two important levels: - the UCI limits bicycles so that it's a race between cyclists, not bank accounts. Currently, a top pro's bike costs about $10-15k, and a competitive bike can be bought for as low as $2-3k (even lower at the amateur level). If they removed the technical limitations, that number would be at least an order of magnitude higher, and potentially two or three. - bike races are not jus…

> - the UCI limits bicycles so that it's a race between cyclists, not bank accounts.

The UCI has been hypocritical, inconsistent, and mendacious in its claims here.

At the dawn of racing the UCI banned the recumbent Velocar not because it was so much faster (it was), but because the powerful (ahem) upright bicycle lobby demanded it.

The there was the Moulton, which started winning lots of races on its 17" tires in the 1960s. The UCI notionally banned it for nonsensical "safety" reasons, while it was really about small wheels being too fast. The big-wheel bike manufacturers had gotten scared.

Meanwhile, while the UCI was busy banning minor things like beam bikes, disc brakes, and even different rider positions (!), it was perfectly happy to allow huge changes in materials (carbon fiber notably), pedals, and wheels.

And then there's the UCI largely ignoring and wrist-slapping the biggest technological improvement by far: performance enhancing drugs.

So if you don't mind, allow me to be annoyed that the UCI has destroyed the small-wheel and recumbent market in the name of consistency, while being largely complicit in the biggest sports drug scandal in history.

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