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Swiss to vote on 2,500 franc basic income for every adult

reuters.com

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Re: Swiss to vote on 2,500 franc basic income for every adult

#51
post #34

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The GP is not a "political slogan", it's a statement of fact. If you'd like to rebut, which seems fairly unlikely, please provide both evidence of sloganhood (slogan, of course, means something specific: in part, that the aforementioned phrase has been used verbatim as a form of promotion. Cite the promotion) and additionally an actual rebuttal to the GP. That would actually be what this is an appropriate venue for,…

Poor Americans receive a wide range of subsidies, which have broad popular support. Obamacare is being fought because it is a byzantine bureaucratic tar pit written in secrecy by industries lobbyists and passed by the worst sort of political manipulations. If someone could manage to put forward a sensible national health system, including the necessary constitutional amendment, it would get a landslide victory.

Its cost controls are weak, at best. There's no way the country will come out the other side of this with cheaper healthcare.

There will be, of course, (truly) great stories about people who were suffering because of the evil practice of dropping customers from coverage when they get sick, and their finally getting the treatment their agreement with the insurance company should have entitled them to, but the total costs, and the costs for nearly everyone, will increase considerably, and some nice examples aside, it's unlikely to improve the quality of care, either.

It's a bad bill. We didn't have a good bill on the table, either–the whole system is fundamentally flawed–but it's a bad bill, functionally speaking. Whether it's really Romneycare, Obamacare, Heritagecare, etc., is irrelevant–it's a horrible system, and people who spend a good amount of their day trying to optimize things really surprise me when they don't acknowledge its numerous and deep flaws.

Re: Swiss to vote on 2,500 franc basic income for every adult

#52

go for it. and let's see the extrapolation to a economic juggernaut like the U.S. It's always the "norway" argument. If Norway (pop 4 million or so) can do it so can the U.S. Yes, I guess Los Angeles could do something like that, but..

4 million AND oil-rich.

Re: Swiss to vote on 2,500 franc basic income for every adult

#53
post #34

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The GP is not a "political slogan", it's a statement of fact. If you'd like to rebut, which seems fairly unlikely, please provide both evidence of sloganhood (slogan, of course, means something specific: in part, that the aforementioned phrase has been used verbatim as a form of promotion. Cite the promotion) and additionally an actual rebuttal to the GP. That would actually be what this is an appropriate venue for,…

Poor Americans receive a wide range of subsidies, which have broad popular support. Obamacare is being fought because it is a byzantine bureaucratic tar pit written in secrecy by industries lobbyists and passed by the worst sort of political manipulations. If someone could manage to put forward a sensible national health system, including the necessary constitutional amendment, it would get a landslide victory.

Wow that is must be some good Kool Aid. Obamacare is basically HeritageCare, the 90's conservative response to "a sensible national health system" (single payer) that died without even getting a vote much less a landslide victory. If there was a chance to pass a less byzantine bill, someone should have told the democrats and Obama because I'm sure they would have been all for it.

Re: Swiss to vote on 2,500 franc basic income for every adult

#54

Meanwhile, in America, the government is shut down to try to stop poor people from receiving subsidies on their private health insurance.

This is not an appropriate venue for chanting political slogans.

This entire thread is political. That much is clear from the get-go.

It will come down to the usual polarizing arguments that you see here every day.

Re: Swiss to vote on 2,500 franc basic income for every adult

#55
post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Every adult gets 2500/month, so a family of 2 adults + 3 children would get 5000/month which is nowhere near enough in most places in Switzerland.

I was thinking of a family with five adults. No reason for the children to leave such a profitable nest. The other scenario is a group of adult friends or relatives.

That seems like a bit of a sideshow, considering they'd get exactly the same (combined) amount of money if they weren't living together.

What makes it any different from a bunch of working adults living in a large house and splitting the rent?

Re: Swiss to vote on 2,500 franc basic income for every adult

#58

Earlier quoted context omitted.

People always want more, so this will allow people to live comfortably while they, for example, acquire a more profitable skill than what they currently have. Then they will earn more, and pay more taxes, and the cycle continues. Alternatively, the Swiss government may have enough money to invest it all and pay for this out of dividends. Just because the US is broke doesn't mean that everyone is.

> this will allow people to live comfortably while they, for example, acquire a more profitable skill than what they currently have. Maybe some of them. If American welfare is any indications you'll have generations of people who will live within this free money system, do nothing, learn nothing and demand more and more over time. They will all have iPhones, huge flat screen TV's and never work a day in their lives.…

> If American welfare is any indications you'll have generations of people who will live within this free money system, do nothing, learn nothing and demand more and more over time. They will all have iPhones, huge flat screen TV's and never work a day in their lives.

There has been a five-year over lifetime limit on welfare since the Personal Responsibility and Work Opportunity Act in '96 that replaced AFDC (Aid for Families with Dependent Children) with TANF (Temporary Assistance for Needy Families). And even before then, there was only scant evidence that such a phenomenon occurred.

Do you have a citation for that?

(EDIT: It also allowed states to redirect federal welfare funds to unrelated purposes. Try living on 110/mo in Mississippi, for example. Let alone affording an iPhone. Plus in all states, there is some work requirement. [1])

[1] http://www.mdhs.state.ms.us/ea_tanf.html

Re: Swiss to vote on 2,500 franc basic income for every adult

#59

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is not an appropriate venue for chanting political slogans.

I stated a 100% true fact that is a direct comparison to the article in question. It's sad people would try to silence facts by dismissing them as 'political slogans'

you stated an opinion. while i think the gov't shutdown is stupid and it's a lame attempt at killing Obamacare, it is not in fact about "trying to stop poor people from receiving subsidies on their private health insurance."

Re: Swiss to vote on 2,500 franc basic income for every adult

#60
Switzerland has twice the amount of asylum seekers per capita, compared to the EU average.

That seems to be the result of a fairly open asylum policy. Some people find it's too open and complain about that.

With the concept of a basic income like this, I suppose their asylum policy would have to become more restrictive.

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