Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

At 16, Ganesh got a job in Qatar. Two months later he was dead

theguardian.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

81–90 of 166 posts

Re: At 16, Ganesh got a job in Qatar. Two months later he was dead

#81

Post by DominikR »

bsullivan01 wrote: post #50

If CIA wanted Qatar's Royal family gone, they'd ship 50,000 AKs, pick a few leaders from each ethnic group and Viva La Revolucion! Couldn't happen to a nicer bunch of folks

The moment these middle eastern countries (Saudi Arabia, Qatar, Yemen) are not useful to Western foreign policy anymore and therefore lose our support, they will probably disintegrate.

You've got citizens that are a minority in their own country, and that are largely incompetent and incapable of running anything, because they never had to do any work.

And then you have a majority of foreign workers that are largely treated like slaves, and probably not happy with that situation.

I can't see who would support those regimes if they get into troubles

Europe certainly wouldn't, politicians here already call those countries dictatorships (publicly) and noone want's to have any affiliation with them.

Russia and China both already had their experiences with terrorism sponsored by those regimes, so I wouldn't expect any support from them either.

I think that particularly Saudi Arabia already sees the writings on the wall and they are actively taking measures but it will be too late, too little.

Re: At 16, Ganesh got a job in Qatar. Two months later he was dead

#82

Post by timje1 »

nikatwork wrote: post #51
jrmurad wrote: post #28

Earlier quoted context omitted.

| Any free market advocates or Randians care to try and fit this terrible situation into their worldview? Except anarchists, I think "Randians" and most "free market advocates" are in favor of court (government) enforcement of contracts. > He was 16 There's a concept of "age of consent" or "capacity" to contract. > arranging a fake passport stating he was 20 Fraud. > wages retained Who would sign a contract like this…

My point (and I am being serious) is that these worker abuses seem to be the result of a complete lack of government regulations surrounding the labor force. However you do raise a good point, in this situation the workers are not free to pick up and leave, which invalidates it as an argument against free market advocation. I concede the discussion to you good sir.

'you raise a good point' .. 'I concede the discussion to you good sir'. Thank you for restoring my faith in internet based discussion.

(With the exception of the gender assumption, which I'll overlook)

Re: At 16, Ganesh got a job in Qatar. Two months later he was dead

#83

Post by polymatter »

sampk wrote: post #80
kamaal wrote: post #79

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The problem in Qatar is vastly the exploitation of poor, by the rich. Which is hardly any different than situations in certain parts of China, India, North Korea and where not? I'm pretty darn sure you don't talk about religion of people who commit suicides in those Foxconn factories. I don't know what agenda you hold in continually dragging Islam into all this.

We don't talk about their religion because their religion doesn't encourage slavery, obviously.

No religion doesn't have something that Western society doesn't have moral difficulty with. Christianity has a load of crap about stoning people, homophobia and subjugation of women for a start. Also includes God sanctioned rape and murder of non-Christians. Leviticus, Exodus and Deuteronomy is full of that crap.

Re: At 16, Ganesh got a job in Qatar. Two months later he was dead

#84

Post by ppradhan »

I am from Nepal. This happens because of poverty and people need to make a living. Awareness is high among migrant workers about the conditions - given hundreds of thousands travel each year and news travels back. But hope of 200-500 USD per month makes people take risks and the exodus continues.

Once there, dodgy contractors and employment agents take advantage when they can. The exit visa system really doesn't help either. Neither do unstable government, weak economy and low employment back home.

It is an actual fact that in desperation, the poor migrant workers are made to work long hours in extreme heat (direct sunlight). At nighttime, close to the desert where many of these fetid labour quarters are get suddenly cold. Extreme variations in temperature and strenuous manual work is said to have contributed to all these heart attack deaths in young people - as young as 20. I'm not sure exactly because I'm not a medical professional - but the conditions are definitely not conducive to human survival.

The way international community has taken notice with this article does help. Business communities and political interests might do their best to keep the blatant human/labour rights violation under wraps but spreading the news will make their task harder. People from countries with vested economic stakes in these gulf countries etc could do well to pressurise their governments to demand accountability. Work is what the workers want - but in humane conditions. Death should not be an acceptable condition of employment.

Re: At 16, Ganesh got a job in Qatar. Two months later he was dead

#85

Post by don_draper »

kamaal wrote: post #33
waps wrote: post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not the middle eastern countries. This is part of their legal system, which is called "islam", or "sharia" (translation: the right way for a muslim). Slavery (if you define it as forced labour without compensation), in case anyone doesn't know, is part of every religion. It is even part of Christianity, but Canon law specifies that it is a Christian's duty to, firstly, never own slaves themselves (with serious punish…

>>This is part of their legal system, which is called "islam", or "sharia" This has nothing to do with Islam. This is all about money and a few rich idiots abusing their power. Bulk of the practices you associate with any religion, are not that of a religion but that of the local civilization at that point of time. Your post resembles the attitude of the western masses today, which is to hold the perception created b…

A few people at the top are greedy and exploiting these laborers or slaves. But it appears religion and culture and being used to justify it in the general population.

Re: At 16, Ganesh got a job in Qatar. Two months later he was dead

#86

Post by simonh »

kamaal wrote: post #78
smsm42 wrote: post #70

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>>> People like these should think about their own morals before talking about somebody else's. People like Winston Churchill can't think anything because they, like Winston Churchill, have been dead for decades. And in all civilized countries slavery has long been illegal. So if in one country - namely Qatar - institution of slavery still exists, Churchill quote from the thirties is not actually a good way to preven…

>>People like Winston Churchill can't think anything because they, like Winston Churchill, have been dead for decades. They could think when they were alive. To talk about freedom and morals, when your own country has set up colonies all round the globe and committing atrocities is hypocrisy.

Which country are you from, by the way?

Re: At 16, Ganesh got a job in Qatar. Two months later he was dead

#87

Post by polymatter »

dm8 wrote: post #39

On a side note, is there anyway we can donate money to his family. ~ $1500 with 36% interest is lot of money for his poor Nepalese family and I doubt they will be able to repay that debt. I guess they will have to work rest of their life just to repay money. I'd be up for donating some money to their family. How do I do it?

I'd also be interested. But I want strong verification that it hasn't just gone straight into a local officials next holiday fund.

Re: At 16, Ganesh got a job in Qatar. Two months later he was dead

#88

Post by codebolt »

the_rosentotter wrote: post #64
waps wrote: post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not the middle eastern countries. This is part of their legal system, which is called "islam", or "sharia" (translation: the right way for a muslim). Slavery (if you define it as forced labour without compensation), in case anyone doesn't know, is part of every religion. It is even part of Christianity, but Canon law specifies that it is a Christian's duty to, firstly, never own slaves themselves (with serious punish…

Ugh, that was at once an impressive and disgusting array of not just wrong but ill-willed information, basically from start to finish. You don't deserve a full rebuttal, but just in case anyone should be in doubt. For just one example, Islamic law practically guarantees the eventual freeing of slaves. It is probably the most highlighted charitable act described in shariah. Missing a day of fasting must be atoned for…

Freeing a slave for missing a day of fasting? If that's the most charitable act in Sharia then you pretty much proved his point. And regardless of how people practice Islam, its texts are full of crap that I'll never have any respect for. Fuck Islam.

Re: At 16, Ganesh got a job in Qatar. Two months later he was dead

#89

Post by mcv »

dm8 wrote: post #39

On a side note, is there anyway we can donate money to his family. ~ $1500 with 36% interest is lot of money for his poor Nepalese family and I doubt they will be able to repay that debt. I guess they will have to work rest of their life just to repay money. I'd be up for donating some money to their family. How do I do it?

I'm really hoping they don't have to repay that debt. If it's illegal according to Nepalese law, then surely nobody can force them to pay up?

If they will be forced to pay, that makes an already terrible and inhuman situation even worse.

Re: At 16, Ganesh got a job in Qatar. Two months later he was dead

#90

Post by cmdkeen »

polymatter wrote: post #83
sampk wrote: post #80

Earlier quoted context omitted.

We don't talk about their religion because their religion doesn't encourage slavery, obviously.

No religion doesn't have something that Western society doesn't have moral difficulty with. Christianity has a load of crap about stoning people, homophobia and subjugation of women for a start. Also includes God sanctioned rape and murder of non-Christians. Leviticus, Exodus and Deuteronomy is full of that crap.

Except Christianity broadly doesn't believe in the Bible being the literal word of God and thus all of those rules applying now - and no country accepts it as their view of Christianity. Biblical infallibility is a modern, revivalist concept. Even during the good old days of the Mediaeval Church no-one stoned adulterers.

No Christian country has laws stoning people on the basis of "it's in the Bible". However it is the law in many Muslim countries.

That's the problem. Christianity is a religion that has had philosophy and interpretation bedded in from the off. US revivalists may ignore that rich history but it is a minority. Islam lost that argument many centuries ago, before which it led the world in scientific discovery and culture, now only a few, oppressed, sects think that way.

Post reply on HN