Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

At 16, Ganesh got a job in Qatar. Two months later he was dead

theguardian.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

51–60 of 166 posts

Re: At 16, Ganesh got a job in Qatar. Two months later he was dead

#51

Post by nikatwork »

jrmurad wrote: post #28
nikatwork wrote: post #20

Any free market advocates or Randians care to try and fit this terrible situation into their worldview?

| Any free market advocates or Randians care to try and fit this terrible situation into their worldview? Except anarchists, I think "Randians" and most "free market advocates" are in favor of court (government) enforcement of contracts. > He was 16 There's a concept of "age of consent" or "capacity" to contract. > arranging a fake passport stating he was 20 Fraud. > wages retained Who would sign a contract like this…

My point (and I am being serious) is that these worker abuses seem to be the result of a complete lack of government regulations surrounding the labor force.

However you do raise a good point, in this situation the workers are not free to pick up and leave, which invalidates it as an argument against free market advocation. I concede the discussion to you good sir.

Re: At 16, Ganesh got a job in Qatar. Two months later he was dead

#53

Post by smutticus »

waps wrote: post #21
camus wrote: post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It is legalized slavery. These middle eastern countries are well known for that. That's why they are recruiting the poorest of the poor from rural areas in Asia. Foreign workers have 0 rights there. But hey these guys are US allies,the leader of democracy and the free world... they cant be bad , can they ...

Not the middle eastern countries. This is part of their legal system, which is called "islam", or "sharia" (translation: the right way for a muslim). Slavery (if you define it as forced labour without compensation), in case anyone doesn't know, is part of every religion. It is even part of Christianity, but Canon law specifies that it is a Christian's duty to, firstly, never own slaves themselves (with serious punish…

You sir are an ignorant racist.

Re: At 16, Ganesh got a job in Qatar. Two months later he was dead

#54

Post by vacri »

chad_oliver wrote: post #40
CervezaPorFavor wrote: post #27

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I've only been to a few countries in the Middle East, so I can't generalise. But one thing common among these countries is the lack of warmth, sincerity and humility among the locals. It is one of the most unpleasant and hostile cultures that I have encountered in my years of travel. They treat blue-collar foreigners as lesser humans. EDIT: To clarify, I've only been to Qatar, UAE and Bahrain.

Here's a blog post (from someone I trust) which seems to contradict you: http://www.wanderingearl.com/welcome-to-syria-my-friend/ "I am simply unable to recall any other country that I’ve visited where I’ve been so instantly and warmly welcomed and I still cannot believe how many people have approached me in the streets just to literally say the words “Welcome to Syria my friend!”"

A lesbian couple I know travelled through west Africa and the middle east. They mentioned that Syria was far more welcoming than the stereotype suggests, and that they felt safe there. This was only a few years ago.

While I doubt they were openly advertising their homosexuality, they still were two women travelling alone, off the beaten path, which was enough to cause a lot of their friends back home to express concern.

Re: At 16, Ganesh got a job in Qatar. Two months later he was dead

#55

Post by vacri »

jrmurad wrote: post #28
nikatwork wrote: post #20

Any free market advocates or Randians care to try and fit this terrible situation into their worldview?

| Any free market advocates or Randians care to try and fit this terrible situation into their worldview? Except anarchists, I think "Randians" and most "free market advocates" are in favor of court (government) enforcement of contracts. > He was 16 There's a concept of "age of consent" or "capacity" to contract. > arranging a fake passport stating he was 20 Fraud. > wages retained Who would sign a contract like this…

It's a good thing it's illegal, that way these people can fight it in the courts with all the access to legal assistance they have.

One of the biggest drawbacks to the libertarian 'fight-it-out-in-court' mindset is that it considers everyone to be equal, but only if they can afford a lawyer. The people that libertarianism fails the most are the people we're talking about right now.

Re: At 16, Ganesh got a job in Qatar. Two months later he was dead

#56

Post by Tzunamitom »

CervezaPorFavor wrote: post #27
zizee wrote: post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You should not paint all countries in the Middle East with the same brush.

I've only been to a few countries in the Middle East, so I can't generalise. But one thing common among these countries is the lack of warmth, sincerity and humility among the locals. It is one of the most unpleasant and hostile cultures that I have encountered in my years of travel. They treat blue-collar foreigners as lesser humans. EDIT: To clarify, I've only been to Qatar, UAE and Bahrain.

What a load of crap. So you saw the airport in Qatar, stayed in a 5-Star hotel in the UAE and caught a connection at Bahrain without ever actually speaking to a local??? I can tell you from my experience of living in the UAE for 3 years and regularly travelling to Saudi overland via Bahrain, the locals are just like people anywhere in the world - some crappy, most decent, and some really nice. Minor differences include the fact that they are generally more spoilt, and much more hospitable than people in the west. Most that I've spoken to care about the worker conditions, and would hate to see people hurt, though they worry about being a minority in their own countries, they find it hard to say no to the comfortable lure if unbridled capitalism and its shiny things.

How many of you have actually been to labour camps? I've been to a couple - I drove on (hardly a "prison") and was invited into the home of a worker, who bought me a juice. There were 6 guys living in a small space (about 10 feet by 20 feet), and they had a rota system for sleeping space. The place was clean and they had somehow managed to afford satellite TV.

Maybe don't be so quick to generalise next time?

Re: At 16, Ganesh got a job in Qatar. Two months later he was dead

#57

Post by levosmetalo »

jbooth wrote: post #23
waps wrote: post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not the middle eastern countries. This is part of their legal system, which is called "islam", or "sharia" (translation: the right way for a muslim). Slavery (if you define it as forced labour without compensation), in case anyone doesn't know, is part of every religion. It is even part of Christianity, but Canon law specifies that it is a Christian's duty to, firstly, never own slaves themselves (with serious punish…

My usual take on these things is it's more about money and what you can get away with locally than the character of the religions themselves. Lots of very christian Americans had very christian outlooks on slavery being legal in the 1850s, and on unequal rights being the way of things (noah and ham) up until the 1960s. If I were looking for a religion that didn't have a history of justifying slavery, I'd point to may…

Well, there are different flavours of crhistianity as well as different flavours of islam. While christian Americans did indeed support slavery, the eastern (Orthodox) christianity was never involved in such behaviour. I'm pretty sure that not all islamic countries were openly supporting slavery, it's just the desert ones.

That being said, I agree that it's more middle east phenomenon that islam phenomenon.

The other poster also mentioned women rights as a part of islamic slavery. How is that different than, for example, Switzerland, where women got a right to vote only after black americans got it? And it's not like extremist christians treat their women in any way better, except they mostly allow only one woman per man.

Re: At 16, Ganesh got a job in Qatar. Two months later he was dead

#58

Post by Tzunamitom »

waps wrote: post #21
camus wrote: post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It is legalized slavery. These middle eastern countries are well known for that. That's why they are recruiting the poorest of the poor from rural areas in Asia. Foreign workers have 0 rights there. But hey these guys are US allies,the leader of democracy and the free world... they cant be bad , can they ...

Not the middle eastern countries. This is part of their legal system, which is called "islam", or "sharia" (translation: the right way for a muslim). Slavery (if you define it as forced labour without compensation), in case anyone doesn't know, is part of every religion. It is even part of Christianity, but Canon law specifies that it is a Christian's duty to, firstly, never own slaves themselves (with serious punish…

If you're looking for a religion to blame, start with capitalism. Islam has nothing to do with this.

While you're at it you can start by looking at how unrepresentative of the Muslim world (if you an even use that term) the Gulf countries are - India and Indonesia are both home to many times more Muslims than the Gulf but yet you continue to judge the adherents of a religion by the actions of a few small countries made significant by their oil and gas reserves.

Re: At 16, Ganesh got a job in Qatar. Two months later he was dead

#59

Post by mmariani »

""" ...Nepalese men and women leave their towns and villages for jobs overseas. More than 100,000 head to Qatar, where a booming construction industry and insatiable appetite for cheap labour has been fuelled by its successful bid to host the 2022 World Cup... """

Just like Rome's slaves built the Colosseum so that the upper classes could keep the masses entertained to keep exploiting them.

We really have not learned shit in the past couple thousand years.

Re: At 16, Ganesh got a job in Qatar. Two months later he was dead

#60

Post by guard-of-terra »

smutticus wrote: post #53
waps wrote: post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not the middle eastern countries. This is part of their legal system, which is called "islam", or "sharia" (translation: the right way for a muslim). Slavery (if you define it as forced labour without compensation), in case anyone doesn't know, is part of every religion. It is even part of Christianity, but Canon law specifies that it is a Christian's duty to, firstly, never own slaves themselves (with serious punish…

You sir are an ignorant racist.

There is no "muslim race". You could call him a culturist :)
Post reply on HN