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How airline reservations are used to target illegal searches

papersplease.org

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Re: How airline reservations are used to target illegal searches

#91

Post by rayiner »

dtsygankov wrote: post #83
rayiner wrote: post #62

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In a democratic society, "they" are the majority. You are a part of them, but you get your one vote and no more. They can bind you without your explicit consent, because at the end of the day they are the ones who protect you from the dangers of other nations, anarchy, etc.

The majority of whom? Do you think the majority of the world would vote that they need a visa to travel to, say, the US? Also, there's no need to protect me from anarchy, since the exact meaning of the word "anarchy" is "no rulers". I'd rather be protected from _rulers, than from lack of rulers.

The majority of the people controlling a territory, obviously. Control of the territory and the power to legislate rules within it are the two sides of the same coin. The rest of the world doesn't get a vote because they're on the outside, not the inside.

Re: anarchy, it's a cute philosophy for sheltered westerners who grew up with the blessings of good government. Ask anyone in rural Pakistan, where government power is almost nil and warlords dominate, what they think of anarchy.

Re: How airline reservations are used to target illegal searches

#92

Post by rayiner »

aric wrote: post #79
snitko wrote: post #64

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So if this 60% majority decides to kill the 40% minority, would you still think it's okay to do so? If not, then how about 70%/30%? Or 90%/10%? Where are the lines for which actions and who decides on them?

It's unfortunate that you're being downvoted. Your statements in this thread are ethically rational. Cheers to a free mind such as yourself who won't be lured into circular reasoning by the happenstance of being born subject to arbitrary policy, and to a free mind who recognizes that borders are inhumane comparatively, in a natural sense, irrespective of the policies of other groups that claim territory and dictate t…

From whence do these universal "ethics" arise? Do the descend from some supernatural deity? Are they a natural phenomenon, like gravity? Can you set up an experiment to detect their existence?

There is nothing "free" about a mind that believes and children's fairy tales like universal "ethics."

Re: How airline reservations are used to target illegal searches

#93

Post by rayiner »

snitko wrote: post #87
atlanticus wrote: post #85

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Your house is yours because of an agreement with the country you live in.

Let's say I built a house on a land that belongs to no country. Now, whose house is it? It's mine as long as I can protect it. So property rights are defined not by some piece of paper, but rather by the ability to enforce them. Government is just one way to enforce property rights, I'd argue a rather inefficient one, since it usually can only deal with consequences of an intrusion (and not prevent it). In an absence…

Land you can defend is "territory." Land other people will defend on your behalf is "property."

The key distinction between the two is that nerds like us on Hacker News can't defend territory. Without ganging up together to ensure collective defense, we're at the mercy of the physically strong. Without society, nerds have nothing to trade for security. That's why before the existence of democratic government, the western world was dominated by military men (feudal barons), not businessmen or intellectual men.

Re: How airline reservations are used to target illegal searches

#94

Post by gcb0 »

The focus on that article is silly.

Of course I want law officials to have real time information about travel and be able to catch a criminal before he flees.

The issue should not be that, but that they use that to initiate illegal searches.

The focus should be on illegal searches, period.

Re: How airline reservations are used to target illegal searches

#95

Post by znowi »

questioned him about his political activities and beliefs

confiscated his laptop computer, camera and a USB drive

If this happened to a computer scientist abroad, say Moscow airport, there would be a storm coming from the western media about oppressive regimes and human rights. Possibly even a condemnation from the US government.

Re: How airline reservations are used to target illegal searches

#96

Post by glasz »

for the sake of simplifying my point i assume many if not most of you are us-based us-citizen:

whenever an issue like this comes up everybody starts to fight and nitpick. as if nobody can see through it. as if everybody is blinded. as if everybody doesn't care about the core of the matter. as if an entire generation or two is just too dumbed down to recognize the scheme.

you know, i love you. but i'm sick of you. if you don't fix your bloody country, nobody will do it for you.

Re: How airline reservations are used to target illegal searches

#97

Post by g8oz »

coldtea wrote: post #77
jlgaddis wrote: post #47

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Since I first heard about FVEY, I have assumed that each of the member countries has total unrestricted access to 100% of the data that any of the other member countries have collected. The more that we find out, the more I believe that that is an accurate assumption.

There's no way that the other 4 eyes have "100% unrestricted access to the data" of the big one...

Thats true, only Israel has that, as per recent revelations.

Re: How airline reservations are used to target illegal searches

#98

Post by glasz »

gcb0 wrote: post #94

The focus on that article is silly. Of course I want law officials to have real time information about travel and be able to catch a criminal before he flees. The issue should not be that, but that they use that to initiate illegal searches. The focus should be on illegal searches, period.

when was the last time a "criminal" was caught during flee-by-flight and the government was NOT involved in the first place?

Re: How airline reservations are used to target illegal searches

#99

Post by bobf »

sbarre wrote: post #29
maratd wrote: post #5

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Really? Fucking hell.. With every month that goes by, I am less and less inclined to travel to, or do business in, the US.. The insinuation being that the US is the only country doing this? I hate this sort of thing as much as the next guy, but let's not pretend the US is the only country engaging in this behavior. We can certainly expect better, but don't blind yourself to the obvious. Based on recent events, mayb…

I wasn't insinuating anything. I said nothing more, or less, than what I said. Any insinuation or implication otherwise is of your own making, and is quite disingenuous I would add. I live in Canada, so I'm on the border with the US, and while I have certainly travelled worldwide (including to some less than democratic countries), I have overwhelmingly travelled to the US, both for business and personal. And over the…

For a perspective from the other side of the border (I'm from the US): I've been to Canada a few times as a tourist and on business over the past decade, never staying more than a few days. Every time, without exception, I've been on the receiving end of "aggressive", extended questioning, ranging from such oddities as "You're here for our free health care, aren't you? Admit it! Just tell us you don't have insurance!" to lines of questioning that suggest involvement with a drug cartel.

I've also been subjected to extensive physical searches of all my belongings. (And just to be clear, I'm a healthy, Caucasian, 20-something, US born-and-raised, male.)

I often think of most Canadians as being friendlier than a lot of people around the US, but immigration and border control aren't one of those areas.

Re: How airline reservations are used to target illegal searches

#100

Post by dtsygankov »

rayiner wrote: post #91
dtsygankov wrote: post #83

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The majority of whom? Do you think the majority of the world would vote that they need a visa to travel to, say, the US? Also, there's no need to protect me from anarchy, since the exact meaning of the word "anarchy" is "no rulers". I'd rather be protected from _rulers, than from lack of rulers.

The majority of the people controlling a territory, obviously. Control of the territory and the power to legislate rules within it are the two sides of the same coin. The rest of the world doesn't get a vote because they're on the outside, not the inside. Re: anarchy, it's a cute philosophy for sheltered westerners who grew up with the blessings of good government. Ask anyone in rural Pakistan, where government power…

Let's separate "the way it is" from "the way it should be".

I agree that the majority of the people controlling a territory get to set the rules they wish to set - that's "the way it is". A warlord gets to set the rules within the territory he's controlling. Putin gets to set the rules in Russia. The banking / military-industrial cartel gets to set the rules in the US.

What "should be", however, is an entirely different matter. "The majority of people controlling my house" should consist of exactly one person - me. That's the definition of private property. I should be the one setting the rules in my house - not "the majority of the people", not "the majority of Americans", not "the majority of the residents of Washington". My ownership of my private property should not be consistent upon the will of a group of people in a randomly selected geographical area.

Warlords are not "anarchy", warlords are proto-governments, feudal governments, whatever you call them. Anarchy means "no rulers", no warlords, in particular.

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