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Sexism In The Tech Industry Takes Center Stage

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Re: Sexism In The Tech Industry Takes Center Stage

#111

Post by Karunamon »

theorique wrote: post #110
Karunamon wrote: post #31

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Probably a combination of fatigue and not wanting to deal with the toxicity these type of threads tend to be utterly soaked in. "Confronting the problem" is hard in the company of reasoned discussion and nigh-impossible in the face of extremists. *edit And that's why I flagged it. Not because I'm some horrible sexist, or because I want women to fail, but because I don't want HN turning into Tumblr or SRS. On top of a…

Wait, what's SRS?

r/shitredditsays over on reddit.com - basically, take Tumblr feminism (radical third wave) and elevate it to the point where it becomes a parody of itself. It's a meta-sub (a sub who's point it is to comment or link to other subs) that puts on airs that they exist for calling out shitty comments on reddit.

In reality, they're known for invading threads, vote abuse, a level of dogmatism and doublethink that would make a Christian fundamentalist blush, and generally being a net negative influence on the site.

Re: Sexism In The Tech Industry Takes Center Stage

#112

Post by jerrya »

pjbrunet wrote: post #108
awj wrote: post #69

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I've encountered more women capable of avoiding the shower for days than I ever would have wanted. "Apathy towards basic hygiene" is not established at the genetic level. Either way, that is something I'd like to see leave this industry too.

I think Bob is hinting at where this evolved from. But that was 20 years ago, we need to look forward now.

It wasn't even true 20 years ago.

"Bob Costas" is playing the same stereotypes he claims to despise when others hold.

Re: Sexism In The Tech Industry Takes Center Stage

#113

Post by theorique »

Karunamon wrote: post #111
theorique wrote: post #110

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Wait, what's SRS?

r/shitredditsays over on reddit.com - basically, take Tumblr feminism (radical third wave) and elevate it to the point where it becomes a parody of itself. It's a meta-sub (a sub who's point it is to comment or link to other subs) that puts on airs that they exist for calling out shitty comments on reddit. In reality, they're known for invading threads, vote abuse, a level of dogmatism and doublethink that would make…

Ah, it's a reddit thing. Thanks.

Sounds like they are fun and well-loved. :/

Re: Sexism In The Tech Industry Takes Center Stage

#114

Post by coldtea »

nicholassmith wrote: post #88
coldtea wrote: post #50

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How is "staring at boobs" bad?

That's quite a loaded question, obviously boobs hold a point of attraction for men as we often like them and you know, they're there, but if you're making an app of you staring at boobs it goes from a fleeting thing to more a situation where you've just turned that lady in an object. That's not super awesome. Look, I like boobs as much as the next guy, but there's got to be a line where we go from "yay boobs are awes…

>but if you're making an app of you staring at boobs it goes from a fleeting thing to more a situation where you've just turned that lady in an object

How is that different from going to see people play music or act in a movie?

Is an actor "an object"?

How about other people we see as objects/machines to do stuff for us, like someone serving meals at McDondals (or a programmer)? In that interaction, we only value what we get out of them -- they might as well be objects (and in some cases, they ARE replaced by objects, e.g with automation).

How are those cases different, except in the puritan way of "it involves sexual desire" so it's bad?

Re: Sexism In The Tech Industry Takes Center Stage

#115

Post by bcheung »

"Sexism is prejudice or discrimination based on a person's sex."

Talking about sex or using crude sexual humor is NOT sexism. It may be inappropriate for a professional environment (especially if kids are around) but it is not sexism; there is no discrimination nor an intent to put someone else down.

Re: Sexism In The Tech Industry Takes Center Stage

#116

Post by SideburnsOfDoom »

omd wrote: post #94
Karunamon wrote: post #31

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Probably a combination of fatigue and not wanting to deal with the toxicity these type of threads tend to be utterly soaked in. "Confronting the problem" is hard in the company of reasoned discussion and nigh-impossible in the face of extremists. *edit And that's why I flagged it. Not because I'm some horrible sexist, or because I want women to fail, but because I don't want HN turning into Tumblr or SRS. On top of a…

Extremists? Is that what you call anyone who isn't a sexist like you? And what does SRS have to do with anything? I left reddit to get away from the r/mensrights freaks like you so you might want to keep your bullshit there.

I didn't read that as the extremists being anti-sexists. In some recent threads on these topics, I've seen some excellent reasoned thought from the anti-sexists and some extremely childish behaviour from people with the opposite opinions.

It could mean either, or both, with or without justification. So, no reason to get irate.

Re: Sexism In The Tech Industry Takes Center Stage

#117

Post by [deleted] »

Karunamon wrote: post #111
theorique wrote: post #110

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Wait, what's SRS?

r/shitredditsays over on reddit.com - basically, take Tumblr feminism (radical third wave) and elevate it to the point where it becomes a parody of itself. It's a meta-sub (a sub who's point it is to comment or link to other subs) that puts on airs that they exist for calling out shitty comments on reddit. In reality, they're known for invading threads, vote abuse, a level of dogmatism and doublethink that would make…

[deleted]

Re: Sexism In The Tech Industry Takes Center Stage

#118

Post by JulianMorrison »

coldtea wrote: post #50
nicholassmith wrote: post #44

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't know if I'd agree this is a freedom of speech issue compared to that article (which I've also read, it's great), there's very little the app is trying to say (other than "hey this is me staring at boobs") which is pushing the freedom of speech argument a little far.

How is "staring at boobs" bad?

Consent. You lack it.

Re: Sexism In The Tech Industry Takes Center Stage

#119

Post by dragonwriter »

bcheung wrote: post #115

"Sexism is prejudice or discrimination based on a person's sex." Talking about sex or using crude sexual humor is NOT sexism. It may be inappropriate for a professional environment (especially if kids are around) but it is not sexism; there is no discrimination nor an intent to put someone else down.

> > "Sexism is prejudice or discrimination based on a person's sex."

> Talking about sex or using crude sexual humor is NOT sexism

Creating a selectively hostile environment is a (fairly significant) legally recognized form of discrimination based on sex, and both of these can be (and not infrequently are) mechanisms that create such an environment, so it is, at best, an oversimplification to say that they are not sexism.

Re: Sexism In The Tech Industry Takes Center Stage

#120

Post by makomk »

protomyth wrote: post #98
cognivore wrote: post #5

So, this has to be said. These fucktards are the people representing our profession on NPR. NPR doesn't run stories about the other apps presented at TechCrunch Disrupt. The public won't here about that, or really, much of the cool tech that goes on. They'll hear about this, and that's what they'll remember. Why the hell doesn't someone go up on that stage and kick those idiots off? Who's the goddamn moderator that i…

It is a pretty simple rule of media: whoever the most controversial[1] member of your community is will be its representative as far as the media is concerned as long as the media is not part of that community. Which communities the media is a member in changes from media provider to media provider. No mainstream media is a member of the tech community. 1) for some definition of controversial including depraved, out-…

Exactly. Everyone's going to spin this as being about women lacking the institutional power men have, but actually it's the other way around: it's a story not because of the merits of the issue but because feminist groups have far more influence over the media and people's perceptions than the tech industry.

This is fairly obvious if you compare the media potrayal of this and how they handle the institutional bigotry problems within feminism. In particular, feminism has a really substantial transphobia problem, including prominent activists publicly outing trans women with photos and full addresses, passing laws designed to deny them access to rape counselling, contacting their doctors to pressure them into denying medical treatment... Anyone who isn't OK with this is shunned by more influential feminists, and the media has fairly consistently sided with the transphobes and against those who point out these issues, even if they'd normally oppose similar transphobia.

Basically, if someone can use a significant chunk of the media to tell everyone how powerless they are, you ought to think about the contradiction before believing them.

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