Putin: A Plea for Caution From Russia • Hacker News Board

Re: Putin: A Plea for Caution From Russia

#191

Post by [deleted] » Thu, Sep 12, 2013, 6:48 AM UTC

anigbrowl wrote: post #140

nikcub wrote: post #127

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Here is everything the major allies have released to back up their case: http://www.theguardian.com/world/graphic/2013/sep/03/syria-c... It isn't very good, it seems to be a case of finding scraps that fit your narrative rather than building a case. One thing that leads me to believe that it might have been the rebels: the civilians and soldiers killed in that rebel controlled area around Damascus were part of the mo…

True, but in that case the government forces should have been falling over themselves to facilitate the work of the UN inspectors.

[deleted]

Re: Putin: A Plea for Caution From Russia

#192

Post by Sagat » Thu, Sep 12, 2013, 6:49 AM UTC

sliverstorm wrote: post #161

mtrimpe wrote: post #138

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They're actually fancy Latin words.

Glorious. I kid you not, I thought "Latin" and I typed "French".

Je dirais qu'il y a quand même une petite différence entre les deux...

Re: Putin: A Plea for Caution From Russia

#193

Post by Sagat » Thu, Sep 12, 2013, 6:50 AM UTC

contingencies wrote: post #176

That's an extremely well written piece. Clearly Putin has good speechwriters, and the Russian literary tradition is famous! Do you think a US speechwriter could produce such a thing in a foreign language ? I doubt it.

Putin is badass enough not to need speechwriters.

Re: Putin: A Plea for Caution From Russia

#194

Post by acqq » Thu, Sep 12, 2013, 6:51 AM UTC

comex wrote: post #169

beloch wrote: post #162

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Okay, I'll bite. Let's say the U.S. actually knows where the chemical weapons are made/stored or just scores a "lucky" hit with a cruise missile. Explosions happen to be great for spreading stuff over large areas. What could happen if a major stockpile of chemical agents gets hit and it happens to be near or directly upwind of a major population center?

Do you think that the entire U.S. military has not thought of that idea? While there is the possibility of a mistake, presumably they will avoid strikes on locations which are likely to cause such an event.

According to their own claims, U.S. military do accidentally bomb the wrong coordinates:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/U.S._bombing_of_the_Chinese_emb...

The victims of such bombings are called in U.S. newspeak the "collateral damage." That would be the language if they'd hit the chemical weapons storages.

Re: Putin: A Plea for Caution From Russia

#195

Post by Sagat » Thu, Sep 12, 2013, 6:51 AM UTC

Grovara123 wrote: post #153

We are all equal... Except for the gay.

Russia's stance on gays does not invalidate the argument. Syria is an unrelated topic.

Re: Putin: A Plea for Caution From Russia

#196

Post by teamgb » Thu, Sep 12, 2013, 7:02 AM UTC

Bulkington wrote: post #95

rosser wrote: post #76

Earlier quoted context omitted.

While you're factually correct in every respect, most of your comment is an ad hominem attack. Putin's arguments should be considered on their merits, regardless of his, his government's, or his country's character and history.

>ad hominem Except this is a political discussion, so the text isn't truly the subject. It is relevant that Putin is a KGB gangster AND that he's claiming the moral high ground AND that he's protecting a Syrian hand-me-down regime's use of chem weapons. The punchline is how badly the US has screwed the pooch post 9/11.

If you have proof that the Syrian government used chemical weapons please share it with the UN security council...

Re: Putin: A Plea for Caution From Russia

#197

Post by antocv » Thu, Sep 12, 2013, 7:23 AM UTC

akiselev wrote: post #66

"The law is still the law, and we must follow it whether we like it or not." The irony of Putin saying this cannot be understated. This entire editorial is dripping with it. For those of you buying into his rhetoric, remember that Putin is the head of a "virtual mafia state" [1] and a government of thugs who are too busy stealing the wealth generated by Russia's natural resources to pursue the eternal dream of Russia…

I got interested in #1 link, and cant understand what that description of the US concerning Russia is so different to how US is run? They are just using words like racketing, extortion and "governement support criminal activities", who defines the criminal activities and isnt taxing extortion? Isnt US supporting criminal activities. The same description can apply to USA or China. The US has much more advanced techniques of performing the same activities Russians do. We are all humans.

Re: Putin: A Plea for Caution From Russia

#198

Post by MortenK » Thu, Sep 12, 2013, 7:24 AM UTC

levosmetalo wrote: post #188

kstenerud wrote: post #164

Earlier quoted context omitted.

CleanedStar, it looks like your account has been hellbanned.

Repeating his comment. If he was banned because of this comments, then ban me too. > Putin is the head of a "virtual mafia state" And what was Russia the year before Putin became head of it? It's not like corruption came in with Putin. Most Russians I know think Putin has lowered the amount of corruption, and I agree. Russia was so corrupt it was barely functioning under Yeltsin. You're correct there is significant c…

I believe this is a very important counter point to the general opinion that Putin is quite literally the devil.

Usually these claims are made by people who have never been to Russia, don't know anything about Russian culture or history and who takes US news articles about russian politics at face value.

Re: Putin: A Plea for Caution From Russia

#199

Post by guard-of-terra » Thu, Sep 12, 2013, 7:34 AM UTC

levosmetalo wrote: post #183

frozenport wrote: post #110

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In Russia an anti-american sentiment is heavily associated with Putin, often the Russian opposition is quite supportive of America - the place that made the Internet and YouTube.

Russian opposition might be supportive of America just because Putin is not. The moment Putin vanishes, the new government will still look up after Russian own interests and not care at all about America.

Of course they should look at their own interests first, but this doesn't mean hostility to America or other countries. Just that there are limits to friendship.

Re: Putin: A Plea for Caution From Russia

#200

Post by r0h1n » Thu, Sep 12, 2013, 7:35 AM UTC

darkarmani wrote: post #157

rooshdi wrote: post #113

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The same can be said about the United States. Every nation has an agenda in the region.

You are completely missing the point. Putin is stating that the reason no one should intervene in Syria, because we need to follow the law (the security council). When the truth is he could easily not veto and intervention would be lawful. That's why it is disingenuous. Vote for it and your dilemma is solved!

> When the truth is he could easily not veto and intervention would be lawful.

Allow me to point out America's veto record:

"Eighty-three times the US has exercised its veto. On 42 of these occasions it has done so to prevent Israel's treatment of the Palestinians being censured. On the last occasion, 130 nations supported the resolution but Barack Obama spiked it. Though veto powers have been used less often since the Soviet Union collapsed in 1991, the US has exercised them 14 times in the interim (in 13 cases to shield Israel), while Russia has used them nine times. Increasingly the permanent members have used the threat of a veto to prevent a resolution being discussed. They have bullied the rest of the world into silence." [Source: http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2013/sep/09/obama-r...]