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Nokia acquired by Microsoft

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Re: Nokia acquired by Microsoft

#511

Post by pasiaj »

simba-hiiipower wrote: post #412
tytso wrote: post #408

One thing which I haven't seen anyone mention yet. Nokia, like Skype, was a non-US company, which means Microsoft could use cash which is trapped in Europe. So you have to take the purchase price and discount it by as much as the US Corporate tax rate (which Microsoft would have to pay if the money was going to be repatriated back to the States, as would be needed if that cash was going to be used to pay dividends or…

yeah, in one of their releases they specifically mention the transaction will be completed using offshore funds. and while i'd generally like to see some movement on policy to encourage large us-based multinationals to bring-home more of their offshore earnings (for reinvestment domestically), the current environment does play-out nicely for foreign m&a - which is at-least (in my opinion) a better use of funds than d…

M&As are generally value destroying activities. Why do you think dividends and buybacks are inferior?

Re: Nokia acquired by Microsoft

#512

Post by bdcravens »

DominikR wrote: post #356
bdcravens wrote: post #343

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Most of the phones running 2.3 aren't shipping with Google Play (is Play even compatible?), so there isn't the integrated app marketplace that defines the modern smartphone experience. These are drastically underpowered devices. Even if an app can run on 2.2, it doesn't mean it'll run well (or at all) on sub-$100 hardware.

"Most of the phones running 2.3 aren't shipping with Google Play (is Play even compatible?)" This is wrong, Google Play is compatible with every Android device. (link: http://source.android.com/compatibility/ ) I don't know where you got this information from, but I can assure you that 99,9999% of all Android devices you'll find outside of China will have Google Play on it. "These are drastically underpowered devices…

Stop and read my grandparent post. 99,9999% of all Android devices you'll find outside of China - yes, but I was referring to phones in places like China.

Drastically underpowered like an iPhone4/4S? Obviously you're so hyped up by your anti-Apple venom that you failed to read my original post, so all is forgiven. No, think underpowered like an original iPhone - if that powerful.

My original point: there's tons of phones out there that aren't even remotely in the same category as the market that Apple and Samsung are selling to. Yet, those numbers keep getting included in the discussions about the Android install base. Samsung and other mid-to-high end Android makers are killing it; there's no need to be intellectually dishonest by including number that are irrelevant to their market.

Re: Nokia acquired by Microsoft

#513

Post by bdcravens »

coldtea wrote: post #397
beedogs wrote: post #361

Earlier quoted context omitted.

yeah, how dare they allow people to have a useful phone for several years at a time.

What? It's the very inverse: they DONT allow people to have a useful phone for several years at a time, they saddle them with an osbolete OS and don't provide upgrades. It's a very big pain point that Android makers don't provide upgrades for their older devices (even 1 year old ones). For some models they don't provide upgrades AT ALL, and you have to get custom-install on them to have a new Android. That's why (Goo…

I don't think this is an Android issue, but with the carriers, and to a lesser degree, the handset makers.

Re: Nokia acquired by Microsoft

#514

Post by gnaffle »

likeclockwork wrote: post #473
gnaffle wrote: post #283

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Actually, it's very similar to the laptop market. A lot of people prefer Windows or Linux on Lenovo laptops, because they have some features that Macs don't have. Likewise, if you compare the hardware (build quality etc) I think most people would agree that Apple still is has the best devices compared to Samsung, which still uses the same plastic frame even on high end phones.

I'm not sure that "plastic" is as bad as popular opinion thinks it is in the case of something the size of a phone. If we say "polymer" does it sound any better? I mean there's plastic.. and then there's plastic.

Of course, it's not necessarily bad, and there's different types of plastic. Some kinds are very rugged.

However, most plastic phones are made of plastic because it's a cheap material that doesn't require much in the way of precision to fit together, and it just doesn't have the same kind of quality (or even quality feel) as a phone made with a different material.

Re: Nokia acquired by Microsoft

#515

Post by devcpp »

ddeck wrote: post #224
macspoofing wrote: post #100

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>There are a lot of people who would have picked up the attractive, well built, well engineered Nokia devices if they had the platform of Android. Yeah maybe. There is no guarantee that the outcome would have been more favorable than being bought out by Microsoft. >Apple obviously is very much in a battle with Android ... Apple already lost to Android. Last count, Android had 80% of the market. There is zero chance o…

>Apple already lost to Android. Last count, Android had 80% of the market. That's like suggesting that Mercedes Benz have lost already to Ford because they have smaller market share. Apple produce a premium product with prices and margins that reflect that. Of course they would prefer dominant market share, as would Mercedes. But a non-majority share does not imply that they've somehow lost.

So Microsoft has lost the PC to Apple because of the manufacturer fragmentation in Windows PCs? Yeah, that makes sense.

Re: Nokia acquired by Microsoft

#516

Post by gnaffle »

pm90 wrote: post #492
likeclockwork wrote: post #473

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm not sure that "plastic" is as bad as popular opinion thinks it is in the case of something the size of a phone. If we say "polymer" does it sound any better? I mean there's plastic.. and then there's plastic.

I agree. I don't see any good reason for this worship of metal. I have a phone with a colored polycarbonate body: so if it scratches, its still the same color. And it looks much better and feels better than the Iphone

The only iPhone that really show scratches is the black iPhone 5. That said, I agree that hard polycarbonate plastic also has a good quality feel. Unfortunately, most phones made with plastic don't use hard polycarbonate, but soft plastic with sqeaking, bending battery covers etc.

Re: Nokia acquired by Microsoft

#517

Post by devcpp »

tanzam75 wrote: post #484
hippiefahrzeug wrote: post #430

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Remind me: which company has just been sold for peanuts after trying the WP strategy?

Motorola tried the Android strategy, and got sold for even fewer peanuts. Specifically, for $12.5 billion, minus $2.4 billion for the set-top box business, minus $3.4 billion in net cash, minus $2.5 billion for tax assets. Actual cost to Google: $4.2 billion. Compared to Nokia: €5.4 bilion = $7.2 billion.

You could come up with many examples of failed companies with devices based on Android. This may just mean that they did something wrong (bad devices, advertising, etc). However, the companies that were successful (e.g Samsung) prove him right.

Re: Nokia acquired by Microsoft

#518

Post by jeltz »

jmspring wrote: post #193
shmerl wrote: post #122

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Key to success since it allowed Nokia developing modern and versatile system. Not sure what you meant by no support and not shipping. It was cancelled, obviously. What kind of support do you expect from a cancelled system? Elop cut off that road for Nokia, and their independence was doomed ever since. It was probably the plan all along. It's good that we have Jolla folks now, who continue Meego heritage. But now they…

Meego wasn't ready to ship, Nokia needed a different OS and Microsoft needed devices. Not ideal for either case, but I don't think a Nokia based on Meego with out the infusion of cash that came in from MSFT would have gone anywhere. Everything one hears about Windows Phone is the "lack of apps". I suspect a system based on Meego would have been a bigger challenge for Nokia than the cash and backing that came from MSF…

But MeeGo did ship! And as far as I know the N9 got good reviews.

Re: Nokia acquired by Microsoft

#519

Post by fnordfnordfnord »

throwawaykf02 wrote: post #419
throwawaykf02 wrote: post #216

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why yes, you're right! I totally missed that. And your rationale makes sense as well. As for the Nokia patent monster, well... it's already been rampaging the countryside for a few months now. I haven't thought through the ramifications of this deal, but I wonder if it would allow them the same immunity that trolls enjoy?

Also, I just realized, the rampaging patent monster is another reason MS did not buy the patents outright. Nokia has active lawsuits against many companies and I doubt anybody wants to inherit that kind of baggage.

No, but MS just found a way to bootstrap it.
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