Kids can't use computers, and why it should worry you • Hacker News Board

Re: Kids can't use computers, and why it should worry you

#401

Post by jeena » Sat, Aug 10, 2013, 8:04 AM UTC

jameshart wrote: post #374

_xzxj wrote: post #110

Earlier quoted context omitted.

On the other hand, when I was a kid whenever I broke something on the computer it was my responsibility to fix it. My parents told me I broke it, so I'm able to fix it. So this particular paragraph really actually resonated with me, because if it weren't for my parents going "Well, you broke it, if you don't fix it it's going to stay broken." I probably wouldn't be nearly as computer savvy as I am today, and I probab…

I get this, and it makes sense. But the combination of network connectivity and expensive closed-box devices means I'm not sure how to implement it. The computer I grew up with was isolated. If I broke it, I had a broken computer. I could take my time fixing it. Nowadays, a computer is connected... to the other computers in the house, and the entire internet beyond. If my kid breaks his computer, he might get in all…

Oh man this is so bad, you're worried about a HDMI connector but not worried about your kids illiteracy?

"If you think the cost of education is high, try the cost of ignorance, it is even higher!" https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GQENHCkiMBU

Re: Kids can't use computers, and why it should worry you

#402

Post by eftpotrm » Sat, Aug 10, 2013, 8:06 AM UTC

rayiner wrote: post #254

BWStearns wrote: post #247

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Also, it's almost always been located in either the top right or bottom right of the screen (re. Windows/OSX here). If all of a sudden the new OSX version required a command line to connect, or changed the icon to something else, I'd understand. But to borrow from the car example, the ignition is unlikely to be located in the trunk.

Except on phones, where it's not (at least, you can't click on it even if there is an icon there). And I believe Windows doesn't necessarily show the icon unless WiFi is configured. And ignition switches all look the same, not so much for WiFi settings.

I just checked two Android devices (Nexus 10 and Xperia Z FWIW) and they both jump when you try to tap the WiFi icon, giving an indication of the pulldown menu behind it.

Honestly, I'm mostly with the author on this. Maybe it's a UK thing and maybe his experience of schools has made him particularly jaded, but I see a lot of functional tech illiterates. For example - I've recently had people not notice their laptop wasn't charging after being warned it had a dodgy power cable and reminded where the charge status icon was, then wonder went it suddenly turned off. Or complain that their browser was broken and installed a different browser because their home page had been changed, even though the available functionality was identical.

We need to make computers easier to discover, sure, but users need to take responsibility for their own machines not ask to be babied while assuming every IT person can bale them out.

Re: Kids can't use computers, and why it should worry you

#403

Post by sanxiyn » Sat, Aug 10, 2013, 8:56 AM UTC

3pt14159 wrote: post #107

People here are passing judgement on the guy for writing the post, but in reality his point is 100% correct: People don't know how to use computers. It is way more important for us to have a generation of people that understand computers than it is for us to have a generation that understands how to repair a car. Computers bring along things like freedom of speech, digital currency, taxes, etc. Knowing how the intern…

Kids sure can run the code they wrote on their pocket computers. Write in JavaScript.

Re: Kids can't use computers, and why it should worry you

#404

Post by ExpiredLink » Sat, Aug 10, 2013, 9:26 AM UTC

3pt14159 wrote: post #107

People here are passing judgement on the guy for writing the post, but in reality his point is 100% correct: People don't know how to use computers. It is way more important for us to have a generation of people that understand computers than it is for us to have a generation that understands how to repair a car. Computers bring along things like freedom of speech, digital currency, taxes, etc. Knowing how the intern…

> People don't know how to use computers.

Why should configuring a "county’s proxy server settings" be an essential skill?

Re: Kids can't use computers, and why it should worry you

#405

Post by aa0 » Sat, Aug 10, 2013, 10:36 AM UTC

aquaroris wrote: post #388

jrs99 wrote: post #333

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So true. In fact, I get really angry at people that use jquery to write applications if they don't know it inside and out. In fact, I don't even use libraries or even functions when I code unless I know exactly how they work.

I don't think the philosophy of "I need to know what X does before I use it" is extrapolatable. With jQuery, your frustration is mildly justified, in my perspective, as jQuery is in constant development, has bugs and breaks stuff. But consider the number of times you've used systems and libraries that you do not understand beyond the subset of its API that interests you. I do not understand the details of my computer…

The main point I believe he was making is that the lack of clockwork curiosity for innards is responsible for ignorance and general impatience in computing skills of the general populace.

Re: Kids can't use computers, and why it should worry you

#406

Post by lotsofcows » Sat, Aug 10, 2013, 11:13 AM UTC

TL,DR? You write a rambling article containing basic factual inaccuracies and switching writing style without warning and you dare make it sound as thought not wanting to finish it is somehow _my_ fault?

The bits in italics were well written. The first paragraph headed "parents" was a nice conclusion. That would have made a great post.

The bit about the UK going to MS for it's initial computing curriculum seems to wipe the BBC / Acorn / ARM story from history.

Re: Kids can't use computers, and why it should worry you

#407

Post by [deleted] » Sat, Aug 10, 2013, 11:22 AM UTC

jotm wrote: post #396

GuiA wrote: post #90

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This guy sounds like he has a chip on his shoulder. As you pointed out: >The first rule of any educator is to never, under any circumstances, make someone feel inept. And it was so easily avoidable here. There are many sentences in this article indicating that this is not an isolated, unique reaction from the poster. This paragraph especially irked me: > I’ve messed up, as I’m sure many of you have. When we purchased…

| Well, maybe it shouldn't have been "techno dad to the rescue", but rather "dad spending a moment with his kids showing them how to setup a raspberry pi/their xbox/etc.". Tell that to my brother - every single time I try to explain as carefully as possible, going step by step, making him repeat the steps to make sure he knows how to do it. Aaand two weeks later he's got the same problem and is calling me to fix it..…

[deleted]

Re: Kids can't use computers, and why it should worry you

#408

Post by kbart » Sat, Aug 10, 2013, 11:22 AM UTC

kmm wrote: post #237

astral303 wrote: post #153

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Just like their fucking unwillingness to learn how to fix a car that won't start is what gets in the way of them getting to work? Oh yeah, it was easy, the clutch pedal switch failed, duh, that's a $5 part and 10 minutes to replace. What do you mean, you missed a day of work for that, you fucking idiot?

You're kidding if you think those are even of remotely comparable level of difficulty. I've fixed many small electronic or mechanical devices by just opening them up and looking at them. It's a lack of critical thinking and problem solving ability, that's all.

> It's a lack of critical thinking and problem solving ability, that's all.

Exactly these abilities that most people do not have. And those who do are usually called "engineers", "programmers", "doctors" etc.

Re: Kids can't use computers, and why it should worry you

#409

Post by general_failure » Sat, Aug 10, 2013, 11:35 AM UTC

Excellent article.

Many people here are missing the point of the article and are instead busy attacking the author's writing style and some random lines in the article. It's terrible to not try to understand what the author is saying and attack an article line by line. Please don't fall into the trap of what many non-authors do: criticize line by line and miss the point. The author is a normal human like you and me and not some "professional" writer who earns his career by writing books.

I hope you get my own point in the previous paragraph and not shred my writing line by line.

Back to the article, what the author is saying is that technology is such a fundamental part of our lives now. Much more than a fridge or a car, because these haven't become general purpose devices yet. Our laptops and devices store personal information and it's critical that we are all educated on how the internet works and how our laptops work in general.

I love teaching but I am not a teacher. When I taught computers to my (50's) mom, I spent the first few days just telling her the story of the internet, microsoft, linux and all that. She really uses the computer now. While she may not be able to fix the problems, I am surprised how capable she is to diagnose the problem and try to pinpoint the problem. It was just a matter of arming her with enough information to get her interested.

IMO, the main problem to be solved here is to teach computers in a way that it's interesting to them. That's it. Human nature will take care from them on - curiosity and knowledge.

Re: Kids can't use computers, and why it should worry you

#410

Post by andrewaylett » Sat, Aug 10, 2013, 12:00 PM UTC

mcintyre1994 wrote: post #251

aetch wrote: post #232

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You say that kids who know how to jailbreak their tablet and run a GBA emulator understand computers? It's usually just people downloading mystery software (could be malware but oh well) onto their computer which promises to have a button that says "jailbreak" and then they jailbreak their device with it not knowing what goes on and then use a magical 'jailbreak app' (cydia, etc) on their device which in turn gives t…

So they can Google for what they want and follow simple instructions to get the computer to do what they want? Great, that's probably enough not to have to ask somebody for help with almost any computer problem/thing you want the computer to do. Using computers will always be an exercise in sensible and appropriate abstraction, in this case I doubt they need to know how jailbreaking actually works.

Except that's more like a Harry-Potter way of doing things, where if someone tells you the right incantation you can perform the magic, but there's no way you're going to fix things if it doesn't work and no chance of understanding what's going on in order to do anything new.