Kids can't use computers, and why it should worry you • Hacker News Board

Re: Kids can't use computers, and why it should worry you

#231

Post by kyro » Fri, Aug 09, 2013, 7:18 PM UTC

This really, really hits close to home. I'm the oldest of 3 brothers, me 26, the youngest 21. I was always an 'experimenter' with computers, meaning I had no problem toying with the settings or clicking through unknown menus to find the solution to a problem. I toyed and tweaked until something worked, and that willingness to explore has helped me innumerable times throughout life.

My brothers, for some strange reason, did not develop that ability. The second something goes wrong on their computer, they freeze, deer in front of a lighthouse. Everything from installing apps, to fixing wifi settings, to customizing their desktops, to updating their iPhones, is a situation that causes panic. These guys are otherwise very functional, and very educated. One of them went off to grad school the other day with a new macbook, and after already having one for 4 years, asked me to "set up" his computer, which consisted nothing more of going through the walk-through for new OSX users.

It is one of the most frustrating and mind-boggling things. You can often hear me yelling at them, whether in person or over the phone, "You need to figure out yourself! Just play around with the damn computer! It's not going to explode!"

Re: Kids can't use computers, and why it should worry you

#232

Post by aetch » Fri, Aug 09, 2013, 7:18 PM UTC

GuiA wrote: post #90

simonsarris wrote: post #36

I get the feeling that the author was judging the person he was helping far more harshly than the perceived judgement she might have passed on him. Maybe she was tired, clearly she was frustrated, but it wasn't obvious that she held the author in any disdain, though the author seemed to perceive it. What we're sure of is that the author held her in such low regard. I wonder if she picked up on that. I suspect she did…

This guy sounds like he has a chip on his shoulder. As you pointed out: >The first rule of any educator is to never, under any circumstances, make someone feel inept. And it was so easily avoidable here. There are many sentences in this article indicating that this is not an isolated, unique reaction from the poster. This paragraph especially irked me: > I’ve messed up, as I’m sure many of you have. When we purchased…

You say that kids who know how to jailbreak their tablet and run a GBA emulator understand computers?

It's usually just people downloading mystery software (could be malware but oh well) onto their computer which promises to have a button that says "jailbreak" and then they jailbreak their device with it not knowing what goes on and then use a magical 'jailbreak app' (cydia, etc) on their device which in turn gives them magical 'free' software and GBA emulators.

Re: Kids can't use computers, and why it should worry you

#233

Post by 0xdeadbeefbabe » Fri, Aug 09, 2013, 7:19 PM UTC

simonsarris wrote: post #36

I get the feeling that the author was judging the person he was helping far more harshly than the perceived judgement she might have passed on him. Maybe she was tired, clearly she was frustrated, but it wasn't obvious that she held the author in any disdain, though the author seemed to perceive it. What we're sure of is that the author held her in such low regard. I wonder if she picked up on that. I suspect she did…

Why is this guy so nice to people? Is he British?

Re: Kids can't use computers, and why it should worry you

#234

Post by brandon272 » Fri, Aug 09, 2013, 7:20 PM UTC

300bps wrote: post #132

simonsarris wrote: post #36

I get the feeling that the author was judging the person he was helping far more harshly than the perceived judgement she might have passed on him. Maybe she was tired, clearly she was frustrated, but it wasn't obvious that she held the author in any disdain, though the author seemed to perceive it. What we're sure of is that the author held her in such low regard. I wonder if she picked up on that. I suspect she did…

I get the feeling that the author was judging the person he was helping far more harshly than the perceived judgement she might have passed on him. There are certain professions that get brought problems constantly by people who think nothing of having you work for them for free. Doctors get this constantly at parties, at the grocery store, functions for their kids, etc. "Does this look like anything to you?" To a mu…

I detect a lot of resentment in your post that could all be avoided by just saying "No, sorry, I can't fix your computer."

Re: Kids can't use computers, and why it should worry you

#235

Post by ctdonath » Fri, Aug 09, 2013, 7:20 PM UTC

rhizome wrote: post #108

cweaver wrote: post #53

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Computers are used in most industries today. Framing, not so much. The ability to use a computer is becoming nearly as important as being able to drive. Sure, you can do without it but you're probably not going to go very far.

Then why don't children learn to drive in elementary school?

They should.

In elementary school, children should be introduced to the bare essentials of vehicular mechanics, say with simple rubber-band powered Lego cars. Over time, increase the sophistication of the science, engineering, and even social aspects of vehicles - eventually building go-carts and learning to drive them as a subset of state driving regulations, and working up to real cars and getting a driver's license. BTW: most jurisdictions only impose driving age limits on public roads; kids certainly are allowed to drive on public property (I've known kids who learned to drive at 14 or earlier).

They should also learn cooking, sewing, carpentry, welding, shooting, fieldcraft, and every other variant of the Boy Scout Handbook and Heinlein's "specialization is for insects" quote. Dang straight they should learn the essential basics of driving early on.

Re: Kids can't use computers, and why it should worry you

#236

Post by mrerrormessage » Fri, Aug 09, 2013, 7:20 PM UTC

grapeshot wrote: post #207

demallien wrote: post #147

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Hmmm, it's an interesting point. I think the reason people don't even try is because they recognize that they can't tell the difference between something that might take them 15 minutes of monkeying around to fix, and something that is beyond their competency. Worse, they are not sure that they won't make things when trying to fix the problem. I'm sure it must be similar to the feeling I get when I'm working on a new…

I think part of the problem is that with the advent of the Internet, no computer comes with proper documentation that you can read to learn what a system does and how it does it. DOS was probably the last OS that could be completely described in its paper manual. Now learning about a new system has to be done through Google, experimentation and thoroughly inadequate help systems where it's very difficult to find an a…

linux is completely described by its source code.

Re: Kids can't use computers, and why it should worry you

#237

Post by kmm » Fri, Aug 09, 2013, 7:23 PM UTC

astral303 wrote: post #153

angersock wrote: post #97

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The computer is a device that, most of the time, just gets in the way of doing X. I responded to this in somewhat more detail down below, but I'll be really blunt here: Their own fucking unwillingness to seek out knowledge and have the patience to learn to solve problems is what gets in the way of getting things done. And every IT person with bad manners or an unwillingness to teach whatever they know and answer ques…

Just like their fucking unwillingness to learn how to fix a car that won't start is what gets in the way of them getting to work? Oh yeah, it was easy, the clutch pedal switch failed, duh, that's a $5 part and 10 minutes to replace. What do you mean, you missed a day of work for that, you fucking idiot?

You're kidding if you think those are even of remotely comparable level of difficulty. I've fixed many small electronic or mechanical devices by just opening them up and looking at them.

It's a lack of critical thinking and problem solving ability, that's all.

Re: Kids can't use computers, and why it should worry you

#238

Post by angersock » Fri, Aug 09, 2013, 7:23 PM UTC

brandon272 wrote: post #223

angersock wrote: post #125

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The author wasn't even an IT bro--he was a stand-in whose real job was teaching. This all said, would you expect that a doctor would have patience with somebody who insisted "My body hurts" without being willing to provide more detail? Terminology matters, and those who think it does not are doomed to be taken advantage of by people with more nuanced ways of reasoning about the world.

I don't think comparing it to someone saying "my body hurts" is a good analogy. I think that it would be more appropriate to say that in the case, she knew her body hurt (computer). She knew what part of the body hurt (web browser, PowerPoint). She just didn't know how to identify the problem. In this case, it would be comparable to your doctor asking you if it were your C3 or C4 vertebrae that was sore and you sayin…

Usually it's more like the old joke:

Guy walks into doctor's office, says his body hurts. Doc asks where it hurts, guy taps his forehead and says that that hurts. Doc asks if anywhere else hurts, guy taps knee and says that too hurts. Doc asks if there are any other symptoms, guy pokes at this other arm, says that that hurts.

Doc diagnoses guy with broken finger.

Re: Kids can't use computers, and why it should worry you

#239

Post by stasmo » Fri, Aug 09, 2013, 7:24 PM UTC

angersock wrote: post #86

So, here's some different themes in the thread so far, some ideas spawned from the article, and thoughts on them: Author is a jerk for the TLDR at the beginning Sure--it's unfortunate that such a red herring was thrown into an otherwise excellent article. Normal people shouldn't have to learn how to into computer. This is unreasonable. "People don't want to learn how to computer, they want to learn how to get X done"…

I think the issue here is that one of our greatest tools, The Google, is being neglected. I bet if I had a simple problem with my car, I'd google it and see if I can fix it.

I guess in the case of not being able to connect to the Internet, they can't really do that unless they carried their smartphone around with them like everybody else in the world.

Re: Kids can't use computers, and why it should worry you

#240

Post by mhurron » Fri, Aug 09, 2013, 7:25 PM UTC

ryanmcbride wrote: post #140

300bps wrote: post #132

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I get the feeling that the author was judging the person he was helping far more harshly than the perceived judgement she might have passed on him. There are certain professions that get brought problems constantly by people who think nothing of having you work for them for free. Doctors get this constantly at parties, at the grocery store, functions for their kids, etc. "Does this look like anything to you?" To a mu…

>So they trudge right over, notebook in hand asking me to recover their data. I got this in spades at my last job. We were a web app startup, and the youngest people in a 13 story building. Everyone in the building knew we did something with computers, so they would never hesitate in bringing us their ancient machines and ask us to fix it, ask us to fix their network, in one case, ask us to do their daughter's final…

> I got to see an authentic modem from 1999

Get off my lawn.

You know ebay has them if you wanted to see them before, they're not museum pieces yet. Also, they do still have their uses.

Kids these days ...