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NSA director heckled on stage at Black Hat security conference

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Re: NSA director heckled on stage at Black Hat security conference

#81

Post by tomelders »

mturmon wrote: post #65
tomelders wrote: post #39

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So what would be a winning strategy in this scenario? I don't think there is one. So let him know you think he's an arsehole while you have the chance because nothing you can say or do is going to change the general's stance on this issue. He's above the law and completely unaccountable. But he's not beyond being called out for being a bad person by another person, and I suspect that's the closest you're going to get…

Well, you have to be prepared, and think out the consequences. You should have some leaders who are used to acting disciplined in public protest. If you choose to shout him down (e.g., for a messy and still-controversial example, http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/AIDS_Coalition_to_Unleash_Power... ) you'd better have a united message and a goal, and media present. And it might still be a bit of a mess. (I had the privileg…

We shall see. I hope you're right.

Re: NSA director heckled on stage at Black Hat security conference

#82

Post by umsm »

tptacek wrote: post #60
samstave wrote: post #51

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Can you enlighten me on the truth of what was happening there? (Serious request) Your write-up of Alexander is spot on. He has been referred to both the most powerful and the most feared man in the world.

I have no idea why anyone outside of the DoD would fear him. Again, the truth is simple: it was a press op. The event was corporate enough that nobody was going to throw pies at him, but just countercultural enough that he could be assured that someone would make him look better by heckling.

Fearing someone for organizational reasons is different than the fear I believe he is referring to. People may fear him due to the power he holds on changing people's lives with the information he controls and has access to.

Re: NSA director heckled on stage at Black Hat security conference

#83

Post by tptacek »

mikegagnon wrote: post #68
tptacek wrote: post #14

This entire event was a staged press op. Keith Alexander is a ~30 year veteran of SIGINT, electronic warfare, and intelligence, and a Four-Star US Army General --- which is a bigger deal than you probably think it is. He's a spy chief in the truest sense and a master politician. Anyone who thinks he walked into that conference hall in Caesars without a near perfect forecast of the outcome of the speech is kidding the…

A half hour before the keynote Moxie encouraged attendees to disrupt the talk https://twitter.com/moxie/status/362596265034399746 "Ubiquitous surveillance prevents millions from speaking freely. BlackHat keynote attendees, let's not let Gen. Alexander speak freely today." I anticipated the protest to be effective, since black-hat hackers have somewhat of a culture of booing presenters who they morally object to. See…

I think Moxie Marlinspike truly and deeply cares about these issues, isn't an outrage tourist, and has done more for online privacy than I probably ever will. I think he truly believed that attempting to disrupt the talk could be an effective strategy. But I also think he was wrong about this.

Re: NSA director heckled on stage at Black Hat security conference

#84

Post by wavefunction »

JonFish85 wrote: post #22

All things considered, it seems like Keith Alexander did a pretty good job of handling the situation. Personally I think the heckler sounded like a douche ("read the Constitution" sounds like a dumb thing to say to a 4 star general who probably has better knowledge of it than your average hacker), even if he (the heckler) had some good points. It would have been easy for the situation to devolve into something much u…

I'm curious why you claim that a 4-star general would have a better knowledge of the Constitution than an average hacker?

Especially one who seems to be running an illegal and unconstitutional program like Gen. Alexander.

Re: NSA director heckled on stage at Black Hat security conference

#85

Post by LoganCale »

JonFish85 wrote: post #22

All things considered, it seems like Keith Alexander did a pretty good job of handling the situation. Personally I think the heckler sounded like a douche ("read the Constitution" sounds like a dumb thing to say to a 4 star general who probably has better knowledge of it than your average hacker), even if he (the heckler) had some good points. It would have been easy for the situation to devolve into something much u…

Fortunately? It should have devolved into something ugly.

Re: NSA director heckled on stage at Black Hat security conference

#86

Post by tptacek »

samstave wrote: post #78
tptacek wrote: post #60

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I have no idea why anyone outside of the DoD would fear him. Again, the truth is simple: it was a press op. The event was corporate enough that nobody was going to throw pies at him, but just countercultural enough that he could be assured that someone would make him look better by heckling.

>" I have no idea why anyone outside of the DoD would fear him. " It was said, which is basically confirmed with this latest revelation, that he has all the information on everyone and can blackmail anyone.... I am trying to recall where I heard that though, originally.

I don't think anyone as savvy and successful as Keith Alexander wants to bake J. Edgar Hoover's image into their legacy.

Re: NSA director heckled on stage at Black Hat security conference

#87

Post by griffordson »

tptacek wrote: post #60
samstave wrote: post #51

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Can you enlighten me on the truth of what was happening there? (Serious request) Your write-up of Alexander is spot on. He has been referred to both the most powerful and the most feared man in the world.

I have no idea why anyone outside of the DoD would fear him. Again, the truth is simple: it was a press op. The event was corporate enough that nobody was going to throw pies at him, but just countercultural enough that he could be assured that someone would make him look better by heckling.

And his detractors look like a bunch of OWS hooligans even if only subconsciously.

I haven't actually seen the Black Hat talk yet, but I can imagine the audience does not compare favorably to another recent PR event:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fawN4OZEt-Y

This kind of thing helps build up the conscious and unconscious associations in the minds of many that favor the NSA a great deal.

Re: NSA director heckled on stage at Black Hat security conference

#88

Post by tptacek »

griffordson wrote: post #87
tptacek wrote: post #60

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I have no idea why anyone outside of the DoD would fear him. Again, the truth is simple: it was a press op. The event was corporate enough that nobody was going to throw pies at him, but just countercultural enough that he could be assured that someone would make him look better by heckling.

And his detractors look like a bunch of OWS hooligans even if only subconsciously. I haven't actually seen the Black Hat talk yet, but I can imagine the audience does not compare favorably to another recent PR event: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fawN4OZEt-Y This kind of thing helps build up the conscious and unconscious associations in the minds of many that favor the NSA a great deal.

The audience for this event is infosec professionals wearing t-shirts, for whatever that's worth to you. Demographically pretty compatible with Reddit, or at least the subset of Redditors with top-quartile (for IT) incomes.

To the extent that this audience has any engagement with public policy, that engagement is likely to take a Ron Paul-ish flavor.

Re: NSA director heckled on stage at Black Hat security conference

#89

Post by fragsworth »

dmix wrote: post #71
JumpCrisscross wrote: post #47

" Ninety-eight percent of society has issues with this " "The national survey by the Pew Research Center, conducted July 17-21 among 1,480 adults, finds that 50% approve of the government’s collection of telephone and internet data as part of anti-terrorism efforts, while 44% disapprove. These views are little changed from a month ago, when 48% approved and 47% disapproved." http://www.people-press.org/2013/07/26/few…

I highly recommend reading "The Myth of the Rational Voter: Why Democracies Choose Bad Policies" [1]. Even if polling shows a lack of discontent, it does not mean they were voting rationally. The emotional fear machine of terrorism will always sway towards totalitarianism policies. But if the majority of those citizens were honestly questioned about having their phones (and their entire families) monitored, I doubt t…

> What's missing are leaders (aka media) evaluating and promoting policies based on rationality reasoning rather than what emotional ploys that sell.

Leaders in media have no external incentive to promote rationality. They make money by appealing to their audience, to increase the size and loyalty of that audience.

There is no solution.

Re: NSA director heckled on stage at Black Hat security conference

#90

Post by jlgreco »

tptacek wrote: post #86
samstave wrote: post #78

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>" I have no idea why anyone outside of the DoD would fear him. " It was said, which is basically confirmed with this latest revelation, that he has all the information on everyone and can blackmail anyone.... I am trying to recall where I heard that though, originally.

I don't think anyone as savvy and successful as Keith Alexander wants to bake J. Edgar Hoover's image into their legacy.

Many people consider legacies to be overrated. Reputation while still alive and kicking is something that concerns just about everybody though.
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