NSA director heckled on stage at Black Hat security conference • Hacker News Board

Re: NSA director heckled on stage at Black Hat security conference

#71

Post by dmix » Wed, Jul 31, 2013, 8:31 PM UTC

JumpCrisscross wrote: post #47

" Ninety-eight percent of society has issues with this " "The national survey by the Pew Research Center, conducted July 17-21 among 1,480 adults, finds that 50% approve of the government’s collection of telephone and internet data as part of anti-terrorism efforts, while 44% disapprove. These views are little changed from a month ago, when 48% approved and 47% disapproved." http://www.people-press.org/2013/07/26/few…

I highly recommend reading "The Myth of the Rational Voter: Why Democracies Choose Bad Policies" [1].

Even if polling shows a lack of discontent, it does not mean they were voting rationally. The emotional fear machine of terrorism will always sway towards totalitarianism policies. But if the majority of those citizens were honestly questioned about having their phones (and their entire families) monitored, I doubt they would be for it.

Irrationality and logical fallacies are flourishing on both ends of the spectrum (citizens and politicians), and there are few vocal voices in between correcting the bullshit.

What's missing are leaders (aka media) evaluating and promoting policies based on rationality reasoning rather than what emotional ploys that sell.

[1] http://www.amazon.com/Myth-Rational-Voter-Democracies-ebook/...

Re: NSA director heckled on stage at Black Hat security conference

#72

Post by podperson » Wed, Jul 31, 2013, 8:32 PM UTC

ferdo wrote: post #25

SkyMarshal wrote: post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How on earth does shouting "bullshit" at him like an idiot fratboy make him any more likely to give your concerns any credence? The best it can do is surprise him for a millisecond, then let him write you off as an "unserious" person to be briefly patronized and then devoutly ignored (or worse, add you to a list of "interesting" persons).

Shouting "bullshit" might nudge a couple of people out of their slumber. If Joseph Welch had been "polite" to Joe McCarthy instead of talking to him like the opportunist that he was, McCarthy would have stayed in business.

In what way was Joseph Welch impolite? McCarthy was horribly rude, Welch patiently waited for his turn and spoke simply and eloquently.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Po5GlFba5Yg

Re: NSA director heckled on stage at Black Hat security conference

#73

Post by mpyne » Wed, Jul 31, 2013, 8:33 PM UTC

moxie wrote: post #30

rthomas6 wrote: post #23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It takes courage to be a whistleblower, or to make any decision different from your peers. It does not take courage to heckle someone on a stage from the safety of a crowd. It happens at almost every comedy show, concert, and sporting event. Heckling someone on stage when you're in the crowd isn't rare at all.

I disagree. This was a situation where a four star general was standing on stage in military uniform, flanked by secret service, with local security also making a visible show of force. It was an intimidating situation amidst a crowd that was largely unsympathetic to critique, and I think it took a certain amount of courage to be the first to yell something. I thought everything but the "read the constitution!" heckl…

I think I'd agree with you if it were a public crowd at a more neutral venue, but this is the equivalent of saying that the NSA is bad on HN. Gen. Alexander wasn't there to take off the boogeyman mask for the security professionals, he was there to gain sympathy for the NSA, and it worked beautifully.

Re: NSA director heckled on stage at Black Hat security conference

#74

Post by arh68 » Wed, Jul 31, 2013, 8:34 PM UTC

tptacek wrote: post #14

This entire event was a staged press op. Keith Alexander is a ~30 year veteran of SIGINT, electronic warfare, and intelligence, and a Four-Star US Army General --- which is a bigger deal than you probably think it is. He's a spy chief in the truest sense and a master politician. Anyone who thinks he walked into that conference hall in Caesars without a near perfect forecast of the outcome of the speech is kidding the…

> There was no serious Q&A on offer at the keynote. The questions were pre-screened; all attendees could do was vote on them.

A joke in every sense, then. Audacious. He leads with a bit of humor, then says,

> and I do want to give a chance for you to ask some questions. Hopefully they'll be easy ones, and I have a crew here that can answer the hard ones if I need to.

Re: NSA director heckled on stage at Black Hat security conference

#75

Post by abalone » Wed, Jul 31, 2013, 8:34 PM UTC

In fairness, the title could just as well be "NSA director applauded on stage at Black Hat security conference".

The crowd's reaction was definitely mixed.

Re: NSA director heckled on stage at Black Hat security conference

#76

Post by replax » Wed, Jul 31, 2013, 8:35 PM UTC

kunai wrote: post #62

tptacek wrote: post #48

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think he went to Black Hat because unlike Defcon, Black Hat is run by a large multinational media company with a PR department trained and motivated to secure keynote speakers who will attract the most press attention to the conference.

Alexander actually spoke at Defcon last year and garnered quite a bit of attention regardless, so I don't quite think this is the case.

Exactly! Actually, Alexander was asked the Question of NSA datacollection after his talk, basically it went down like this:

Q: "[..]Does the NSA really keep a file on anyone? [...]"

A: "[..] Frist, no, we don't [...]"

Absolutely astonishing!

listen/watch here: http://youtu.be/tz0ejKersnM?t=33m2s

Re: NSA director heckled on stage at Black Hat security conference

#77

Post by mpyne » Wed, Jul 31, 2013, 8:35 PM UTC

northwest wrote: post #11

> “I haven’t lied to Congress,” Alexander responded And WTF was that, now? EDIT: I guess this is true because actually, he lied to the chairs in the room. Or some coffee mugs that were also present. Is that how one evades a lie detector, btw? It really can't get any sicker. We have now reached the bottom.

Last I checked he wasn't James Clapper (they guy who lied to Congress). But maybe I'm wrong.

Re: NSA director heckled on stage at Black Hat security conference

#78

Post by samstave » Wed, Jul 31, 2013, 8:35 PM UTC

tptacek wrote: post #60

samstave wrote: post #51

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Can you enlighten me on the truth of what was happening there? (Serious request) Your write-up of Alexander is spot on. He has been referred to both the most powerful and the most feared man in the world.

I have no idea why anyone outside of the DoD would fear him. Again, the truth is simple: it was a press op. The event was corporate enough that nobody was going to throw pies at him, but just countercultural enough that he could be assured that someone would make him look better by heckling.

>"I have no idea why anyone outside of the DoD would fear him."

It was said, which is basically confirmed with this latest revelation, that he has all the information on everyone and can blackmail anyone....

I am trying to recall where I heard that though, originally.

Re: NSA director heckled on stage at Black Hat security conference

#79

Post by IanDrake » Wed, Jul 31, 2013, 8:36 PM UTC

>the four-star general presented a timeline of terrorist attacks around the world, from the 1993 World Trade Center bombing to the Boston Marathon attack.

Can anyone speak as to why, with the NSA's systems, they were not able to thwart an attack by the ass clowns in Boston? Russia even warned us about them and they made frequent contact with foreigners.

I'm sorry, but that terrorist event seems like low hanging fruit if their system really works to protect us.

Re: NSA director heckled on stage at Black Hat security conference

#80

Post by willholloway » Wed, Jul 31, 2013, 8:37 PM UTC

tptacek wrote: post #14

This entire event was a staged press op. Keith Alexander is a ~30 year veteran of SIGINT, electronic warfare, and intelligence, and a Four-Star US Army General --- which is a bigger deal than you probably think it is. He's a spy chief in the truest sense and a master politician. Anyone who thinks he walked into that conference hall in Caesars without a near perfect forecast of the outcome of the speech is kidding the…

My main take away from your comment is that Keith Alexander is Enabran Tain & that I feel like the US is approximating the Cardassian Union more everyday.

The existence of nuclear weapons has rendered traditional warfare unprofitable, except against the very weak, and even in those cases only military contractors benefit.

We invaded and occupied Iraq and didn't even get any oil, just a trillion or so in national debt. At least in the time of Rome citizen soldiers were titled large swaths of land in the conquered territories.

I expect in the long drawn out economic warfare to come that cyber espionage and surveillance to be critical advantages & well connected military contractors with access to the NSA's total information awareness database to profit handsomely from insider trading.

Update & Question:

I'm taking a short break from work and wondering why this comment has been down voted twice?

Instead of down voting & unless you just hate ST: DS9 references, can you provide a plausible argument against the inevitability that tapping the entire world's communications will not lead to insider trading?

There are so few terrorists in the world, and so many opportunities to profit from having early access to employment reports, corporate revenue numbers and other economic data.

Please give me a compelling reason why a wiretap on all the worlds communications is more likely to be used to catch terrorists than for simple greed?