Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

NSA director heckled on stage at Black Hat security conference

forbes.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

21–30 of 217 posts

Re: NSA director heckled on stage at Black Hat security conference

#21

Post by MarcScott »

mseebach wrote: post #17
ferdo wrote: post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How does a guy that makes excuses to spy on us all and lies to Congress deserve any courtesy?

Well, maybe he doesn't, but you're the bigger man so you do it anyway. Turning the other cheek and all. Also, the organisers invited him because they thought you might want to hear what he has to say, so you do it out of respect for them.

If we keep "turning the other cheek" we'll end up with broken jaws. I'm a polite individual but politeness will only get you so far. At some point people have to make a stand and say what is actually on their minds in as powerful a way as they know how.

Re: NSA director heckled on stage at Black Hat security conference

#22

Post by JonFish85 »

All things considered, it seems like Keith Alexander did a pretty good job of handling the situation. Personally I think the heckler sounded like a douche ("read the Constitution" sounds like a dumb thing to say to a 4 star general who probably has better knowledge of it than your average hacker), even if he (the heckler) had some good points.

It would have been easy for the situation to devolve into something much uglier, but fortunately it seems like things stayed pretty calm!

Re: NSA director heckled on stage at Black Hat security conference

#23

Post by rthomas6 »

northwest wrote: post #18
mjfl wrote: post #16

I don't care whether the director of the NSA is a bad guy, it just makes you look bad if you heckle someone on stage. There are probably few more scrutinizing audiences for the director of the NSA than a professional security conference. I would rather have him say what he has to say and be analysed by the many bright minds at the conference than for him to be childishly interrupted and waste time that could be spent…

> it just makes you look bad if you heckle someone on stage. It also takes a lot of courage to do just that. And people with courage are rare. They need our support. People who are 2 inches away from getting loud need our support. Because they are the people who can start the chain reaction that is so urgently needed now and that will not happen if we collectively shut up and just stay polite. We have been seriously…

It takes courage to be a whistleblower, or to make any decision different from your peers. It does not take courage to heckle someone on a stage from the safety of a crowd. It happens at almost every comedy show, concert, and sporting event. Heckling someone on stage when you're in the crowd isn't rare at all.

Re: NSA director heckled on stage at Black Hat security conference

#24

Post by fnordfnordfnord »

podperson wrote: post #3

No idea how accurate a depiction of the speech this is, but the article is -- contrary to the title -- portraying the speech as having been warmly received, applauded, with one lone heckler. Now, whether or not one agrees with General Alexander, there are more courteous and productive ways to express yourself than yelling "bullshit".

> portraying the speech as having been warmly received, applauded,

Disappointing if true. I can't imagine anything that Keith Alexander would say that is deserving of applause. The guy deserves no quarter.

Re: NSA director heckled on stage at Black Hat security conference

#25

Post by ferdo »

SkyMarshal wrote: post #19
ferdo wrote: post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How does a guy that makes excuses to spy on us all and lies to Congress deserve any courtesy?

How on earth does shouting "bullshit" at him like an idiot fratboy make him any more likely to give your concerns any credence? The best it can do is surprise him for a millisecond, then let him write you off as an "unserious" person to be briefly patronized and then devoutly ignored (or worse, add you to a list of "interesting" persons).

Shouting "bullshit" might nudge a couple of people out of their slumber.

If Joseph Welch had been "polite" to Joe McCarthy instead of talking to him like the opportunist that he was, McCarthy would have stayed in business.

Re: NSA director heckled on stage at Black Hat security conference

#26

Post by diminoten »

northwest wrote: post #18
mjfl wrote: post #16

I don't care whether the director of the NSA is a bad guy, it just makes you look bad if you heckle someone on stage. There are probably few more scrutinizing audiences for the director of the NSA than a professional security conference. I would rather have him say what he has to say and be analysed by the many bright minds at the conference than for him to be childishly interrupted and waste time that could be spent…

> it just makes you look bad if you heckle someone on stage. It also takes a lot of courage to do just that. And people with courage are rare. They need our support. People who are 2 inches away from getting loud need our support. Because they are the people who can start the chain reaction that is so urgently needed now and that will not happen if we collectively shut up and just stay polite. We have been seriously…

Being loud is worthless if you're not right in what you're saying when you are loud. Even hurts your cause if you're not right.

Re: NSA director heckled on stage at Black Hat security conference

#27

Post by tomelders »

podperson wrote: post #3

No idea how accurate a depiction of the speech this is, but the article is -- contrary to the title -- portraying the speech as having been warmly received, applauded, with one lone heckler. Now, whether or not one agrees with General Alexander, there are more courteous and productive ways to express yourself than yelling "bullshit".

Well it's not like anyones going to make a salient and logical point and the NSA is going to turn around and say "You know what, you're right, this is wrong. We'll stop it immediately". So shouting "bullshit" at the top of your voice has the same effect, which is no effect at all. So no one is any worse off for this kind of behaviour.

That said, I think the audience should have received him with absolute silence. No applause, no heckling, nothing to betray the mood of the crowd. Let's see how the General Alexander feels about a thousand eyes scrutinising him with no clue as to what they're thinking or planning. Then maybe he'll have an idea about what it feels like to be on this side of the equation.

Re: NSA director heckled on stage at Black Hat security conference

#28

Post by methehack »

podperson wrote: post #3

No idea how accurate a depiction of the speech this is, but the article is -- contrary to the title -- portraying the speech as having been warmly received, applauded, with one lone heckler. Now, whether or not one agrees with General Alexander, there are more courteous and productive ways to express yourself than yelling "bullshit".

> there are more courteous and productive ways to express yourself than yelling "bullshit".

I disagree. When chatting with Faust, I think it's better to avoid the drawn out conversation and just tell him to fuck off. This Alexander guy is a liar and a felon (lying under oath to congress) and has earned our collective disrespect. He deserves a lot more than "bullshit!" He's a domestic terrorist that's infiltrated the government as far as I'm concerned.

Re: NSA director heckled on stage at Black Hat security conference

#29

Post by mseebach »

ferdo wrote: post #20
mseebach wrote: post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Well, maybe he doesn't, but you're the bigger man so you do it anyway. Turning the other cheek and all. Also, the organisers invited him because they thought you might want to hear what he has to say, so you do it out of respect for them.

Politicians and bureaucrats won't change until people start treating them with contempt, both socially and professionally. Playing nicey-nice with people that have little to no conscience doesn't work as a method of political change.

Being rude also doesn't work as a method of political change? It doesn't, and in addition you alienate people who thing being civilised is a good thing.

Politicians are already one of the most reviled groups around, and that doesn't discourage them.

Stage effective, organised opposition that will actually threaten their plushy careers, then they'll listen.

Re: NSA director heckled on stage at Black Hat security conference

#30

Post by moxie »

rthomas6 wrote: post #23
northwest wrote: post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> it just makes you look bad if you heckle someone on stage. It also takes a lot of courage to do just that. And people with courage are rare. They need our support. People who are 2 inches away from getting loud need our support. Because they are the people who can start the chain reaction that is so urgently needed now and that will not happen if we collectively shut up and just stay polite. We have been seriously…

It takes courage to be a whistleblower, or to make any decision different from your peers. It does not take courage to heckle someone on a stage from the safety of a crowd. It happens at almost every comedy show, concert, and sporting event. Heckling someone on stage when you're in the crowd isn't rare at all.

I disagree. This was a situation where a four star general was standing on stage in military uniform, flanked by secret service, with local security also making a visible show of force. It was an intimidating situation amidst a crowd that was largely unsympathetic to critique, and I think it took a certain amount of courage to be the first to yell something.

I thought everything but the "read the constitution!" heckle was well timed and on point. I only wish that more had joined in.

Post reply on HN