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XKeyscore: NSA program collects 'nearly everything a user does on the internet'

theguardian.com

251–260 of 641 posts

Re: XKeyscore: NSA program collects 'nearly everything a user does on the internet'

#251

Honest, maybe naive question, but what types of programmers actively help build and maintain systems like this? I turned down a job for a company that is less than a mile from my house because I viewed their business as immoral. Hard for me to fathom anyone taking a job, helping to build systems like this. I get that many of the components of a system like this could be seen as harmless. However, a system of this com…

One of my first jobs was at a company that sold and serviced surveillance equipment to school districts. It's a slippery slope where you can first focus on the good aspects -- murder cases solved -- but eventually encounter information that you have to make an ethical judgement on wether you are willing to play a role in implementing such technology. For instance, testing began on systems that could capture both audio and video and I became uncomfortable because kids say stupid things that can be taken out of context. I make no claims that audio surveillance was installed, but the casual nature of doing R&D on such systems without considering the implications became too uncomfortable for me to take part of.

Re: XKeyscore: NSA program collects 'nearly everything a user does on the internet'

#252

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Stallman never was a conspiracy crackpot, he always was a visionary. The only thing that changed is some people's judgment of him.

You can be completely correct and still be a crackpot. What we need is strict limitations on what can and should be collected, and how it's used, plus better methods of securing what's being exchanged. For example, sending email as plain-text, leaving it on the server as plain-text, maybe that's a bad idea. The NSA isn't necessarily the only reason you'd do this. Foreign governments are going to take an interest in t…

"You can be completely correct and still be a crackpot."

Not really. At that point, you are just using the term as an ad hominem in a childish attempt to ward off cognitive dissonance.

You don't win an argument by calling the other guy a weirdo.

Re: XKeyscore: NSA program collects 'nearly everything a user does on the internet'

#253

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why would Google (or anyone) link to them directly? with fiber no less! this stuff is alarming enough no need for FUD. This XKS business seems about intercepting non-encrypted traffic as the references to HTTP payload quoted in the article would suggest.

> Why would Google (or anyone) link to them directly? with fiber no less! this stuff is alarming enough no need for FUD. Who says Google has a choice or is even complicit? The backbone providers have mostly stayed mum and it's known that the likes of AT&T split their fiber for the NSA. If we're willing to go to the bottom of the ocean to tap fiber lines it's pretty easy to believe that we'd tap terrestrial lines too.

My understanding is that internet firms enjoy slightly more leverage, and that is why in contrast to telecos they are now petitioning the courts to reveal the scope of the orders.

Re: XKeyscore: NSA program collects 'nearly everything a user does on the internet'

#254
post #157

Is this information the NSA could've attained left to their own devices, or is this sort of stuff only accessible with help from service providers, eg Facebook and Google? What I'm trying to ask is: with all the hullabaloo Google, Facebook, Yahoo, Microsoft, etc have made about individual, manual reviews of information requests, are we still being lied to? I suspect that we obviously haven't been told the whole story…

If you can tap large Internet connections then you can siphon off all HTTP and SMTP traffic and from there it's trivial to reconstruct sessions and from there get application level stuff. I was doing similar things in the mid-1990s on shared Ethernet. It's really only a question of speed and scale and then of writing code that recognizes particular traffic (such as "this HTTP connection is a Facebook chat session").

My question is, if they did this, why did each company have it's own join date in the prism timeline? wouldn't it just all happen at once? if they were tapping pipelines then the data would be collected regardless of the system, yet they all had very distinct dates that they were onboarded.

Re: XKeyscore: NSA program collects 'nearly everything a user does on the internet'

#255
post #6

Imagine if storage limitations weren't holding back the NSA. Those 60TB density HAMR[1] drives that are due in 2016 are really going to take invasive to a whole new level. [1] http://storageeffect.media.seagate.com/files/2012/03/perpham...

Who said that they were using spinning storage? You can store an insane amount of data for your dollar if you are willing t use tape.

For example, IBM have a robot tape library that can store 900PB[1], Quantum can fit ~5PB per full rack equiv[2], and there are many many more.

[1] http://www-03.ibm.com/systems/storage/tape/ts3500/index.html

[2] http://www.quantum.com/products/tapelibraries/scalari6000/in...

Re: XKeyscore: NSA program collects 'nearly everything a user does on the internet'

#256
The scale, depth and technical sophistication of everything I've heard and read so far has made me change my mind on whether or not there is a technical solution to NSA and GCHQ surveillance. I'm now convinced that the only way to solve this is through politics. We need representatives that will enforce our rights to privacy, not clever hacks.

Re: XKeyscore: NSA program collects 'nearly everything a user does on the internet'

#257

Just a friendly reminder that if you looked at the slides, you have read a classified document, and therefore are guilty of a Federal felony. Cheers!

And the NSA is passing your details on to the FBI riiiight about now. Enjoy your federally-funded vacation!

At least you can be sure that dinner will always be served.

Re: XKeyscore: NSA program collects 'nearly everything a user does on the internet'

#259

Honest, maybe naive question, but what types of programmers actively help build and maintain systems like this? I turned down a job for a company that is less than a mile from my house because I viewed their business as immoral. Hard for me to fathom anyone taking a job, helping to build systems like this. I get that many of the components of a system like this could be seen as harmless. However, a system of this com…

The opportunity to work on a cutting-edge technical problem at scale most would never get to touch. That's a very tempting proposal. The secrecy itself probably also appeals to some folks.

I'd also imagine that a lot of folks only work on one small part of this, that in and of itself, is not objectionable. Where it becomes scary is when you expand the scope to cover every US citizen regardless of wrongdoing.

Re: XKeyscore: NSA program collects 'nearly everything a user does on the internet'

#260
post #218
post #29

This is overwhelming. Even when you always hear the claims about we knew this was going on, somehow it is still shocking when you see it all laid out infront of you with screenshots and the capabilities described. I can see how they get HTTP information, since they would intercept at transit hubs - but how are they getting all Facebook private messages and Gmail? I was also looking for another unique ID that users ar…

>This is overwhelming. Even when you always hear the claims about we knew this was going on, somehow it is still shocking when you see it all laid out infront of you with screenshots and the capabilities described. It has become a bit of a pet peeve of mine recently to see self-aggrandizing comments from users around the net about how "we should have known" and "none of this is new." I'm a practically addicted news j…

First of all: keep the staggering to a minimum.

Second: realizing that "we should have known" and "none of this is new" isn't so much about reading news articles and being "plugged in", but rather having an understanding of how the Internet works. To oversimplify greatly, you're essentially playing a very precise game of telephone between around 10-20 different people, and usually about 1-3 different publicly-owned corporations. To be surprised at the possibility of storing packets is somewhat naive considering how simple it is to do.

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