Earlier quoted context omitted.
I don't know much about the American healthcare system, but wouldn't it be the same incentive when selling any product? If you sell the same quality product for cheaper, you will get more business than your competitors. That's what competition in a free market is, no?
This is an interesting film to learn more about the healthcare industry in the US. http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0386032/
Heart Surgery in India for $1,583 Costs $106,385 in U.S.
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Re: Heart Surgery in India for $1,583 Costs $106,385 in U.S.
#72The first supposed fact thrown around in the medical costs argument like this is, "Well in India their cost of living is lower, so they charge considerably less, yadda yadda..." but it's obvious the price difference goes way beyond any cost of living gap. That's over $100,000 in price difference, while it is true the cost of living (salary, prices of every day items) in India is considerably less than that of the US,…
>>You don't see this kind of innovation in the American health system because it has been engineered with greed in mind right from the start. As an Indian, I can tell you people here think the same about our health care system. The Doctor in discussion here, Dr Devi Shetty is a sort of a local hero here in Bangalore. And who knows in some years he might as well be a national hero. Its basically because he seems to br…
Re: Heart Surgery in India for $1,583 Costs $106,385 in U.S.
#73There is a big problem with health care in most countries that I've been living into for extended periods of time (France, Italy and to a lesser extent Germany).
Anything sorrounding "medical" and/or "health care" has a 10x-100x price blowup, for absolutely no reason. I'm not even speaking about surgery, I can start by phisiotherapy consumables, such as elastic bands. Elastic bands are used in phisical rehab. They are dirt cheap, usually, if you buy them inside a child play store. But behold, if you buy the same stuff from "Thera Band", which is officially sold to hospitals and clinics, a couple of meters of the stuff will cost you 20-30 times more. I worked as an assistant in a phisical rehab clinic for several years, and this kind of bullshit is amazing, because it goes for everything (air balls, plastic rods for balancing excercises, and so on). The price inflation goes even higher with actual machines.
There is a machine which is called "Rehab 3xxxx" (produced by a clinic around here which I helped develop, so I won't disclose the details), which is just a linear actuator which moves back and forth. Literally, nothing more. There is an embedded controller which allows to tune the extension limits, and a couple of ABS plastic accessories that hold to the knee, wrist, etc.
The idea is just to move the articulation, and/or rotate it, over and over. You would think that there is something "fancy" about it, to name a few details which I wished this machine had:
* force feedback to stop the motion (right now the machine will just twist your arm as configured, no matter the force) * speed regulation (who needs it? just one speed is good enough) * some sort of patient-id so that you don't need to reconfigure it each time
But not really. Like I said, this is just a dumb linear actuator, with incredibly cheap ABS plastic accessories and a fancy name. Price? 30k euros in the basic kit.
The funny part: for anything medical, you have to demonstrate that this machine is effective somehow. So we had a trial in an hospital, wrote an article about the effectiveness (or lack thereof) and did some paperwork. The idea is that you just have to demonstrate that it doesn't hurt. Of course, a physiotherapist will be twice as effective, but it's more expensive on an hourly basis, so that's why clinics love to buy the machine and just let patients sit on it.
I'm literally disgusted, but I can see everything around "medical" equipment having the same issues. All the economy surrounding hospitals, doctors and equipment is essentially broken, because there's essentially no competition, assured money (by the state in this case) and a lot of corruption going on within the clinics and medical companies (unfortunately).
edit: english.
Re: Heart Surgery in India for $1,583 Costs $106,385 in U.S.
#74Earlier quoted context omitted.
>>You don't see this kind of innovation in the American health system because it has been engineered with greed in mind right from the start. As an Indian, I can tell you people here think the same about our health care system. The Doctor in discussion here, Dr Devi Shetty is a sort of a local hero here in Bangalore. And who knows in some years he might as well be a national hero. Its basically because he seems to br…
In agricultural terminology you can either pay people 'by the day' or pay them 'by the hundred yards'. I have worked in both types of systems and can see merits and pitfalls in both. In the former system there can woeful output whilst in the latter there can be woeful quality. Neither of these are inevitable. In a salary system, if the lazy/incompetent can 'get away with it' and the industrious/competent aren't ackno…
Re: Heart Surgery in India for $1,583 Costs $106,385 in U.S.
#75Earlier quoted context omitted.
That article doesn't actually compare India to the US. In fact, it says that "It’s also likely the results aren’t India-specific." It would be interesting to see the results of a similar study carried out in the US or UK, for example. In any case, there is a difference between the general level of competency of doctors in a given country, and the level of competency available to wealthy foreigners travelling to the c…
It's not India-specific. This is definitely happening in Eastern European countries, too, and probably even some of the western ones (although a bit more) - just like with college tuitions. There's something seriously wrong with both the healthcare system and the education system in US if the prices are 20x+ more than in any other country.
Careful here. I live in London for several years now, and from my experience Eastern European doctors are much better qualified then Western European. I'm originally from Poland, and medical studies are really hard, and people spend whole 6 years cramming just to become an apprentice to the doctor (it's Bachelors and Masters degree combined). On the other hand in western countries you can do undergrad degree in anything and only then apply to med school.
Re: Heart Surgery in India for $1,583 Costs $106,385 in U.S.
#76The first supposed fact thrown around in the medical costs argument like this is, "Well in India their cost of living is lower, so they charge considerably less, yadda yadda..." but it's obvious the price difference goes way beyond any cost of living gap. That's over $100,000 in price difference, while it is true the cost of living (salary, prices of every day items) in India is considerably less than that of the US,…
>>You don't see this kind of innovation in the American health system because it has been engineered with greed in mind right from the start. As an Indian, I can tell you people here think the same about our health care system. The Doctor in discussion here, Dr Devi Shetty is a sort of a local hero here in Bangalore. And who knows in some years he might as well be a national hero. Its basically because he seems to br…
We recently had a baby (in Aus). Our Indian neighbour (been in au for 7 years) was amazed at how little medical intervention we had. His comment was that in India there was much more incentive to recommend drugs, c-sections, etc.
Re: Heart Surgery in India for $1,583 Costs $106,385 in U.S.
#77So now I wanted to pay for everything without help of our health care system because that would mean waiting. When I tell people in US MRI costs 135$ in Poland they just can't believe it and this is in commercial clinic so they make money here, it has nothing to do with national health care system as I didn't use any refunds.
Re: Heart Surgery in India for $1,583 Costs $106,385 in U.S.
#78Earlier quoted context omitted.
> A doctor trained in India is no less qualified than a doctor trained in the US. In general? http://blogs.worldbank.org/developmenttalk/shocking-facts-ab... > It’s also pretty staggering that hiring qualified staff doesn’t appear to increase this probability. Das and colleagues suggest that part of the issue might be the variation in the quality of instruction in Indian medical training institutions. So there may be…
If their doctors are trained like the bulk of their it professionals -- those hired by the body shops, no thanks. At least from what I've seen, countries that make a business iut of pudging grad numbers hoping for expat acceptance, quality is inversely proportional to quantity. Within the US, the cost of heart surgery is highly variable, but if I were to go international, i would go south/central America over India a…
Re: Heart Surgery in India for $1,583 Costs $106,385 in U.S.
#79Earlier quoted context omitted.
>>You don't see this kind of innovation in the American health system because it has been engineered with greed in mind right from the start. As an Indian, I can tell you people here think the same about our health care system. The Doctor in discussion here, Dr Devi Shetty is a sort of a local hero here in Bangalore. And who knows in some years he might as well be a national hero. Its basically because he seems to br…
> You just feel its cheaper as $1 = 60 rupees. There you get a straight 60x value of your money. That is what it is at the end of the day. I find the vast majority of people are tripped up by currency conversion, but I'm surprised to find this on HN. In Japan $1 = 100 yen, but certainly I don't feel I have 100x in buying power. A bowl of ramen will cost me $8 in SF; an equivalent bowl will cost me 800 JPY in tokyo. L…
Re: Heart Surgery in India for $1,583 Costs $106,385 in U.S.
#80I found it fascinating how this goes way beyond wage differences -- it's a serious focus on fiscal efficiency. The entrepreneur behind this has opened 21 new hospitals in India focused on bringing more affordable care: "...he has cut the price of artery-clearing coronary bypass surgery to 95,000 rupees ($1,583), half of what it was 20 years ago, and wants to get the price down to $800 within a decade." This leaves me…
Largely, on the lower end of the spectrum. Doc in the boxes for routine acute care, nurse practitioners substituting for doctors, pediatric medicine (+), etc. + One business model is "Pay a flat fee of $50, cash on the barrel. Your kid gets to see a doctor in under 15 minutes. You know and we know that 98% of the time it's just your child being sick with a routine illness. We'll write the prescription if required and…