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Heart Surgery in India for $1,583 Costs $106,385 in U.S.

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Re: Heart Surgery in India for $1,583 Costs $106,385 in U.S.

#41

Post by noonespecial »

dantheman wrote: post #30
danboarder wrote: post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

At face value this appears to be a huge opportunity for innovators to take on the whole existing healthcare industry here in the USA. In reality I think many healthcare entrepreneurs either get caught in the existing framework (and dependent on it), or find the regulatory and other hurdles too hard here. That said, I still think there is a LOT of room to improve cost efficiency here, and the right entrepreneur could…

A huge problem in the US is all sorts of really really bad laws. For instance to open a new hospital you have to get permission from other hospitals in the area.

That's the opportunity. Eventually regulatory capture and corruption will become so great in the US that it really does become impossible to actually provide the care. Nothing will make it through the wall of parasites.

The opportunity is in helping Americans get real healthcare outside their borders. Take a glance Uber's way. You'll know you've got it right when there's serious talk about making it illegal to travel abroad to obtain medical care. For the safety of the people and the necessary good of the lowly American doctors, of course.

Re: Heart Surgery in India for $1,583 Costs $106,385 in U.S.

#42

Post by kamaal »

DigitalSea wrote: post #9

The first supposed fact thrown around in the medical costs argument like this is, "Well in India their cost of living is lower, so they charge considerably less, yadda yadda..." but it's obvious the price difference goes way beyond any cost of living gap. That's over $100,000 in price difference, while it is true the cost of living (salary, prices of every day items) in India is considerably less than that of the US,…

>>You don't see this kind of innovation in the American health system because it has been engineered with greed in mind right from the start.

As an Indian, I can tell you people here think the same about our health care system. The Doctor in discussion here, Dr Devi Shetty is a sort of a local hero here in Bangalore. And who knows in some years he might as well be a national hero. Its basically because he seems to bring in advantages of doing things in volume + some health insurance based innovations into the whole equation. And I do agree that he is pragmatically altruistic. But such people are exceedingly rare. We are simply fortunate to have him.

I've never been to US, but I can tell you the Indian health care system is if not less is equally greedy compared to their US counterparts. Its just the same.

These days if you don't have health insurance you are more or less screwed. Its just like the US. I mean from whatever I've read about US so far its the very same. Nothing changes. You just feel its cheaper as $1 = 60 rupees. There you get a straight 60x value of your money. That is what it is at the end of the day.

Coming to our system. Forget greed, fraud in the system is so massively high nothing that I write here will explain it. It is extremely common for doctors to order lab tests wholesale even if they are dead sure the patient has no problems at all. Doctors get commissions from testing labs/pharmacies etc for ordering lab tests, medicines. Treatment is purposefully prolonged, patients made to eat all kinds of antibiotics, undergo all sorts of non sense tests because doctors get commissions for it.

The fees for completing your medical course is astronomically high. Capitation fee often runs in crores, the net fee by the time you finish your MD is so high no doubt most doctors have to practically turn into crooks to get something out of it. Add to this nearly more than a decade of studies sets a perfect stage for these sort of activities to happen.

Its just the same old game, as you see in US. Just served differently.

Re: Heart Surgery in India for $1,583 Costs $106,385 in U.S.

#43

Post by chunkyslink »

pliny wrote: post #12
bobdvb wrote: post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What incentive is there in the USA to reduce healthcare costs? The system is totally corrupt.

I don't know much about the American healthcare system, but wouldn't it be the same incentive when selling any product? If you sell the same quality product for cheaper, you will get more business than your competitors. That's what competition in a free market is, no?

This is an interesting film to learn more about the healthcare industry in the US. http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0386032/

Re: Heart Surgery in India for $1,583 Costs $106,385 in U.S.

#44

Post by noonespecial »

joshmn wrote: post #3

As an American. this makes me sad. Just sick to my stomach. It's just greed.

But its not just greed. Greed is also whats driving the Indian entrepreneurs to try to offer the surgeries cheaply and en-mass. Its more than that. Its unfair exploitation, regulatory capture, raw corruption and senseless parasitism. Its greed mutated and run amok. Its what happens when you get greed wet and then feed it after midnight.

Re: Heart Surgery in India for $1,583 Costs $106,385 in U.S.

#45

Post by jmspring »

seanmcdirmid wrote: post #13
DigitalSea wrote: post #9

The first supposed fact thrown around in the medical costs argument like this is, "Well in India their cost of living is lower, so they charge considerably less, yadda yadda..." but it's obvious the price difference goes way beyond any cost of living gap. That's over $100,000 in price difference, while it is true the cost of living (salary, prices of every day items) in India is considerably less than that of the US,…

> A doctor trained in India is no less qualified than a doctor trained in the US. In general? http://blogs.worldbank.org/developmenttalk/shocking-facts-ab... > It’s also pretty staggering that hiring qualified staff doesn’t appear to increase this probability. Das and colleagues suggest that part of the issue might be the variation in the quality of instruction in Indian medical training institutions. So there may be…

If their doctors are trained like the bulk of their it professionals -- those hired by the body shops, no thanks. At least from what I've seen, countries that make a business iut of pudging grad numbers hoping for expat acceptance, quality is inversely proportional to quantity.

Within the US, the cost of heart surgery is highly variable, but if I were to go international, i would go south/central America over India any dry.

Re: Heart Surgery in India for $1,583 Costs $106,385 in U.S.

#46

Post by piyushpr134 »

shameerc wrote: post #37

I'm just curious to know the situation in countries like Russia and China, because many of my friends took their medical degree from those Countries. Is is just the education is cheaper or entire industry?

I am from India. I think one major cost factor is price of medicine. In India, you can get medicine at very low cost compared to the west. Salary and dollar conversion/PPP are also major cost factors. For instance, a urine test costs $1-$1.5 in India, urine culture is about $6, a USG scan is about $14. In USA, urine routine is $30, culture is $70 and USG is $750

Re: Heart Surgery in India for $1,583 Costs $106,385 in U.S.

#47

Post by mtgx »

pliny wrote: post #12
bobdvb wrote: post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What incentive is there in the USA to reduce healthcare costs? The system is totally corrupt.

I don't know much about the American healthcare system, but wouldn't it be the same incentive when selling any product? If you sell the same quality product for cheaper, you will get more business than your competitors. That's what competition in a free market is, no?

Good thing there's no real free market in US, then.

Re: Heart Surgery in India for $1,583 Costs $106,385 in U.S.

#48

Post by patio11 »

danboarder wrote: post #6

I found it fascinating how this goes way beyond wage differences -- it's a serious focus on fiscal efficiency. The entrepreneur behind this has opened 21 new hospitals in India focused on bringing more affordable care: "...he has cut the price of artery-clearing coronary bypass surgery to 95,000 rupees ($1,583), half of what it was 20 years ago, and wants to get the price down to $800 within a decade." This leaves me…

Largely, on the lower end of the spectrum. Doc in the boxes for routine acute care, nurse practitioners substituting for doctors, pediatric medicine (+), etc.

+ One business model is "Pay a flat fee of $50, cash on the barrel. Your kid gets to see a doctor in under 15 minutes. You know and we know that 98% of the time it's just your child being sick with a routine illness. We'll write the prescription if required and rule out anything more serious. If it is anything more serious, we'll explain your escalation options."

Re: Heart Surgery in India for $1,583 Costs $106,385 in U.S.

#49

Post by sdoering »

pravda wrote: post #39
sdoering wrote: post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Would they? Or would the poor middle class people not being able to afford cancer-treatment/heard surgery just have a considerably lower life-expectancy? I am not sure, so I really would love to see the numbers/facts supporting your statement. Would love to learn of this magic fact. [cynicism end] [Edit]: Typo [Edit 2:] In Germany, with full health-insurance the cost for a Cardiopulmonary bypass are round about 30k €…

First of all, I am sure the 106K figure is a phony 'list price' figure and not reflective of how much is actually paid. Second of all, you ignore the incredible sums of money taken from the 'poor middle class' and handed over to the health industrial complex. For most of this country's history [the USA], there was no such thing as health insurance. The poor got charity care and the middle class were able to pay. Why…

I am not stating, that it might drive prices down. As I would not be stating, that it might drive prices up.

I wouldn't do this, because I do not have the necessary facts to make such a claim.

If a health-insurance system would work right, the health insurance agency might have a lot of more leverage in this highly regulated market, then any individual paying for its own. But that is just an assumption.

Well your next statement regarding my ironic "poor middle class" is just that: a statement, without any facts to support it.

I was asking for facts to support your statements. I even did some preliminary research into the costs of comparable healthcare in Germany (where I am from).

I just wanted to learn, if a "no health care" system might work better and be cheaper, but I will not just believe your statements, as that would just go against everything, I value.

So I really beg you, to show me verifiable facts substantiating your statements. Please?

Re: Heart Surgery in India for $1,583 Costs $106,385 in U.S.

#50

Post by patio11 »

Somewhere there is a forum of doctors saying "Pfft, the US firm wants $100k for the patient records system and the Indian firm wants $1,000. Those greedy bastards! They live in a toxic industry which acts as parasites on us noble public servants saving lives every day. It serves them right to deal with international competition finally.

Let's go with the Indian bidder. What could possibly go wrong."

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