Switching from Gmail to FastMail • Hacker News Board

Re: Switching from Gmail to FastMail

#141

Post by saurik » Fri, Jul 19, 2013, 7:43 PM UTC

gcr wrote: post #111

mhurron wrote: post #91

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Wait, IMAP sucks because you do something in a non-standard way (labels in GMail) that is exposed over IMAP in the best way it can fake (folder) and it is IMAP's problem that automagically do what you think it should? And just for added measure, deleting the label seems to me to be the right thing to do.

OP's point was that one of IMAP's weakenesses is that it provides no clean way to represent what gmail does.

This is incorrect: Gmail could (and really should) be represented as a single mailbox, with labels mapping to flags. Combined with support for the (widely implemented in non-Gmail servers) QRESYNC extension to make resynchronization of the flags efficient, this would be a great mapping of Gmail's semantics to IMAP.

However, most IMAP clients expose mailboxes as "folders" and barely support flags at all (no indexing, not even slow search, no UI at all most of the time, and if it even bothers to parse them, often has some silly limit like "five flags that must be configured ahead-of-time in Settings"), so users would have had a totally useless experience.

In essence, Gmail's IMAP is implemented the way it is not because it is the best way to map Gmail's semantics on to IMAP, but because it provides a reasonable fit to the way Outlook, Thunderbird, and Apple Mail (the only e-mail clients that have any marketshare) represent IMAP. Those clients represent trees of mailboxes as a folder hierarchy.

While commonly believed, people really need to stop blaming IMAP for Gmail: it's about as silly as claiming using HTTP headers as part of an API specification is impossible because none of IE, Firefox, Chrome, or Safari, allow users to modify the headers in their document-oriented web browsers.

Re: Switching from Gmail to FastMail

#142

Post by smalltalk » Fri, Jul 19, 2013, 7:50 PM UTC

tehwalrus wrote: post #82

adestefan wrote: post #78

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm 99.9% certain that the Supreme Court would rule such programs Constitutional.

If true, then there is clearly no real balance of powers in the US; PRISM clearly violates the original spirit of the 4th amendment. If noone is standing up for the constitution anymore, then the legislature + executive have taken control.

Saying "clearly" is usually a sign that you're trying to avoid explaining why something is true. Could you explain why PRISM violates the original spirit of the 4th amendment? The 4th amendment is a very narrowly worded provision (when the founders knew how to write broadly worded provisions, e.g., the 1st amendment) and doesn't apply to third party records (when there were third party records during the 18th century, so the founders could have included them in the 4th amendment either explicitly or by broader drafting had they wanted to).

Re: Switching from Gmail to FastMail

#143

Post by ryanmcbride » Fri, Jul 19, 2013, 7:52 PM UTC

davidcollantes wrote: post #4

The main problem with abandoning Google is all the services associated with it, not only mail. And paid Gmail continues to offer mobile sync, which FastMail does not. Yet, FastMail looks quite nice.

Damn, I was about to sign up until I read this. I have to handle a lot of my work from my phone, and if it doesn't work well then I don't think it would be too useful for me.

Do you know if there's any plan for them to release an android app that would let my phone sync?

And I do realize the irony in trying to cut out google while using an android phone.

Re: Switching from Gmail to FastMail

#144

Post by sp332 » Fri, Jul 19, 2013, 7:52 PM UTC

dalks wrote: post #116

maqr wrote: post #102

I just disabled the 'promotions' tab, and it also disabled it on my android client. If they start sneaking ads in as real email, I'm gone. If I can disable the ads, I'll probably hang out for a bit longer, but it's time to start evaluating alternatives.

It's not an email.

There's a screenshot going around that shows ads in the gmail interface among the actual emails (not off to the side like they are now).

Re: Switching from Gmail to FastMail

#145

Post by ryanmcbride » Fri, Jul 19, 2013, 7:56 PM UTC

s3r3nity wrote: post #138

rocky1138 wrote: post #12

Am I the only one here that doesn't care about Gmail ads? I don't even notice them.

I don't really care either -- it's a free service that I'm able to access on pretty much any web-accessible device on the planet. Sometimes maintaining a service like that requires a way to pay the bills (FastMail is a paid service.) Why would I be 'uncomfortable' with ads? Sometimes I feel like the issue with ads in Google/other services falls victim to the 'Nickelback Effect', where a few other very vocal people ha…

Please be fair, people hate Nickelback because they make bad music.

Re: Switching from Gmail to FastMail

#146

Post by signed0 » Fri, Jul 19, 2013, 8:01 PM UTC

gcr wrote: post #112

savszymura wrote: post #90

Earlier quoted context omitted.

https://twitter.com/ioerror/status/353955117411737600 >Don't use hushmail. Never use hushmail or suggest it to others - they snitch out their users. Fuck them.

Context?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hushmail#Compromises_to_email_...

Re: Switching from Gmail to FastMail

#147

Post by tammer » Fri, Jul 19, 2013, 8:06 PM UTC

pcora wrote: post #132

tehwalrus wrote: post #5

American company, American servers, American jurisdiction. Sure they won't read your email, but the NSA will (just like Gmail.) Update: hmm, so Opera aren't american? interesting. All the servers are definitely in the US though: > "we have standard servers and a high speed connection in the US." - https://www.fastmail.fm/help/overview_about.html

This is kinda going to a different direction than the article. http://www.maxmasnick.com/2013/07/19/fastmail/#fn:1 "This may be a deal breaker if you’re concerned about government spying. " I believe that Fastmail is a valid option if your main problem is with Ads and the fact that Google might be reading all your mails and companies are buying this big data to sell you better services / more targeted Ads around the…

I recently switched from Fastmail to iCloud, and I can say I'm very happy. (I initially switched from Gmail for the reasons you describe).

No functional difference for me, and I save some bills. I don't consider it a free lunch, either, since I basically pre-paid when I bought my iPhone.

Re: Switching from Gmail to FastMail

#148

Post by kisielk » Fri, Jul 19, 2013, 8:07 PM UTC

ChemicalHarm wrote: post #100

don_draper wrote: post #95

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Also, FastMail doesn't appear to have 2 factor authentication.

Actually, they do have it: http://blog.fastmail.fm/2013/05/03/google-authenticator-now-...

How does that work for IMAP access? Do you have an "application-specific password" like Google does, or just your regular password?

Re: Switching from Gmail to FastMail

#149

Post by dpeck » Fri, Jul 19, 2013, 8:08 PM UTC

tlrobinson wrote: post #113

tehwalrus wrote: post #96

Earlier quoted context omitted.

if I'm talking to my mailserver over HTTPS/IMAP TLS, I don't mind where the traffic is routed. It's still not ideal (they can still see who you're talking to), but you'll never have 100% privacy. Just make as much of the data useless as possible.

SMTP isn't always encrypted...

SMTP is very seldom encrypted. (by volume, only gmail attempts, yahoo and others don't last time I checked)

Re: Switching from Gmail to FastMail

#150

Post by stock_toaster » Fri, Jul 19, 2013, 8:11 PM UTC

tammer wrote: post #147

pcora wrote: post #132

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is kinda going to a different direction than the article. http://www.maxmasnick.com/2013/07/19/fastmail/#fn:1 "This may be a deal breaker if you’re concerned about government spying. " I believe that Fastmail is a valid option if your main problem is with Ads and the fact that Google might be reading all your mails and companies are buying this big data to sell you better services / more targeted Ads around the…

I recently switched from Fastmail to iCloud, and I can say I'm very happy. (I initially switched from Gmail for the reasons you describe). No functional difference for me, and I save some bills. I don't consider it a free lunch, either, since I basically pre-paid when I bought my iPhone.

The ability to use your own domain is a big win for fastmail though.